So I gather from the comments that Big T and steamed are making here that they consider our involvement in the Arab Spring in Libya to be a total disaster. Luckily the trillion dollars we have spent in Iraq, based on "Intelligence Failures" is still okay
If plundering gold and oil is your measure of success - then I'd say that the Obama lead NATO forces has been successful.
In an illegal war, funded primarily by the US, still ongoing, handing over the keys to the country to who knows who, chaos and anarchy in the country today, 20,000 missiles missing a success?
We never had a good reason why NATO forces are there .. other than to stop the slaughter of rebels .. instead, NATO bombs Libya and it's citizens into the stone age, slaughtering hunderds of thousand of people, supporting a mercenary army of rebles from all over the middle east. Qaddaffi a bad guy - I think so, there are lot's of bad guys in this world - the destruction of Libya was not worth getting rid of him, and was not about saving some 'rebels' lives.
I supported Ron Paul in 2008 - he did not vote to go into Iraq, will get us out of Iraq if elected president ... YOU support Obama - and still SUPPORT Obama,
he has not gotten out if Iraq, he will maintain a mercenary army comprised of soldiers and contractors .. paid by US taxpayers, in Iraq and both Democrats and Republicans voted to enter this war.
Was the Iraq war premise false .. one can say that about Vietnam (Bay of Tonkin) , WWI (Lusitania/Arch Duke assassination) and Pearl Harbor.
Democrat war hawks and neocons .. .. look at the Fact Checker from the Washington Post on Obama and Iraq
Funny, when they were in congress they wanted out of Iraq, made lot's of noise about it .. now that he is prez and Hillary is Queen of Sheeba, they are still in Iraq ...
2002
Oct. 2. Illinois state Sen. Barack Obama gives speech opposing war in Iraq. He said he did not oppose "all wars," but he opposed "dumb wars," and wanted to finish the job against al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden rather than start a new war in Iraq.
2003
Nov. 16. Obama tells Chicago community activists that he would have voted against the $87 billion package, explaining, "At a certain point, we have to say no to George Bush.
2004
July 26. In an interview with the New York Times, prior to his speech at the Democratic Party convention, Obama declines to criticize presidential nominee John Kerry for his 2002 vote to authorize the Iraq war.
July 27. Obama tells Chicago Tribune that U.S. forces should remain in Iraq to stabilize the war-torn country. Says "there is not much difference between my position and George Bush's position at this stage," but is critical of Bush for bungling the occupation
September 19. Associated Press reports that Obama, running for Illinois Senate seat, would be willing to send more troops to Iraq if it would create conditions for eventual withdrawal
2005
Jan. 13. Obama tells Secretary of State designate Condoleeza Rice, in Senate confirmation hearing, that he is "rooting for success" in Iraq, while pressing her for a better-defined exit strategy.
April 13. Obama opposes Sense of Senate amendment not to delay vote on providing military funding for Iraq because of a concurrent debate on immigration reform.
Nov. 22. In speech to Chicago Council on Foreign Relations, Obama calls for "gradual" withdrawal from Iraq in 2006 and criticizes Bush administration for trying to stifle dissent on the war.
2006
June 21. In Senate floor speech, Obama calls for a "blueprint for an expeditious yet responsible exit from Iraq," but opposes a "date certain for the total withdrawal of U.S. troops." Both
Obama and Clinton oppose June 22 Kerry amendment that would require "the redeployment of United States Armed Forces from Iraq in order to further a political solution in Iraq."
2007
April 26. Obama and Clinton both vote in favor of bill to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq within one year. The measure is promptly vetoed by President Bush.
May 24. Both Obama and Clinton vote against a $124 billion Iraq war spending bill because there is no withdrawal date for U.S. troops.
Sept. 21. Obama and Clinton vote in favor of amendment to reduce the number of U.S. troops in Iraq within 90 days.
Nov. 16. Both Obama and Clinton vote against a Bush administration request for $70 billion in emergency supplemental funds for the Iraq war.
Dec. 18. Obama and Clinton co-sponsor requiring troop withdrawal and cut-off in combat funds from Iraq. However, neither senator returns from the campaign trail to vote for the amendment, which is defeated 71-24.
2008 - Feb
Ending the war in the first year of his potential presidency, therefore, is the strongest stand Obama has taken thus far
Jan 2009 - President Obama
Dec 2009 - Barack Obama has decided to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, on top of the 21,000 additional soldiers he ordered there earlier this year. This will bring the total number of U.S. troops in Afghanistan to over 100,000.
August 2009
Afghanistan Contractors Outnumber Troops
Jan 2010 - Still in Iraq (what about that one year thing).. Still have GItmo
2010 August
President Obama gave a speech to veterans today on the progress of the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq. The speech also addressed the situation in Afghanistan
Sept 2010 This Year, Contractor Deaths Exceed Military Ones in Iraq and Afghanistan
Jan 2011 - Still in Iraq
May 2011 - As U.S. Military Exits Iraq, Contractors To Enter "I think the number of State Department security contractors would be somewhere in the area of between 4,500 and 5,000," Kennedy says. That's roughly the size of an Army brigade, and double the number of private security contractors there now.
Will 155,000 Contractor Mercenaries Remain On Pentagon Payroll in Iraq and Afghanistan?
August 2011 - The world 19s media reacted with a collective shrug of the shoulders today as Defense Secretary Robert Gates admitted that US troops are likely to stay in Iraq beyond 2011, making another scheduled withdrawal date nothing more than an empty meaningless promise.
Don't worry he'll just make shit to support his suckers err candidates...
Thats a really long post, but it doesnt go into why and how you see it as right to stand up for Bush and crucify another for similar situations.
Its clear its not a what right or wrong issue with you T, all anyone has to do is read some of the posts you made in the past on Bush compared to now. Its only a political issue for you, which makes any point you attempt to make lack validity to me.
Sorry to say it yet again, but it puts you right in the same crowed and steamed and baron.. What are you're thoughts on those two members of madville? Do you see them as productive? If not why attempt so hard to be like them?
The White House announced today it planned to expand a program to secure and destroy Libya's huge stockpile of dangerous surface-to-air missiles, following an ABC News report that large numbers of them continue to be stolen from unguarded military warehouses. " A day late and a few billion dollars short.
Plus this: "Every time I arrive at one of these weapons facilities, the first thing we notice going missing is the surface-to-air missiles. "
UPDATE: A reader emails: "Do I understand correctly, that the best intel in Libya is ABC News? Dark times. "
MORE: Reader Donald Gately emails: "It's probably nothing. I bet Eric Holder just sold them to Mexican gangs. " 
I am having a hard time comprehending the conservative spin here. The best I can do is that the couple of million we have spent to get rid of Gaddafi is some kind of unforgivable outrage while the trillion dollars to get rid of Saddam is still okay.
Do I have that right? 
No Spin Gramps, just a timeline of how Obama the liberal with no responsibilities but plenty of blame for GW ... flipped flopped when it came to the middle east quagmire ... The Iraq war - That is not all of GW's war .. approved by both sides of congress .. and a war that Obama has continued for the 3 years he has been in office.
Obama .. first against the war as an Illinois senator.. then as it came closer to being elected he was neutral on the war .. then as president he gave a nice speech about getting out in a year .. but continued the Iraq war .. He ESCALATED the Afghanistan war .. by many times. Even when some troops had been pulled out of Iraq, there are now civilian contractors there instead .. hardly getting out of the middle east .. no spin there .. just the facts.
The fact is .. Ron Paul, a conservative, a man who was in the armed services, would be out of Iraq and Afghanistan within 6 months of being elected .. not the spin like Obama has twisted.
The Libyan kinetic military action .. a term that neocons from GW's regime coined, and now Obama regime - like to use for the Libyan War, an illegal war, .. a war that congress did not vote on, a war that the US is primarily paying under the auspice of NATO, a war that was about oil and gold, not saving rebels lives, .. a war where Obama didn't want to risk American soldiers, so like Clinton in Bosnia/Serbia, the forces bombed the country in oblivion. If you don't think that there aren't US special forces and CIA agents in Libya .. then you live in a fairy tale. The NATO forces used mercenaries from the middle east in backing the 'Libyan rebels' Things have gotten out of control there .. 20,000 freakin' missiles are missing . good lord .. what is the spin on that .. gish .. get a grip on reality man! Hey .. if liberals were so dead set against the wars started by GW and the neocons and approved of by the democrat warhhawks in congress .. why in the heck are they sitting on their hands now! Since you like to talk about the disaster of Iraq .. what about the disaster continues in Iraq, escalated in Afghanistan, and endorsed in Libya. Where is the NATO team responsible for all this chaos. Better question .. where are the 20,000 missiles and where will they end up at and be used against?
I'm all for a strong defense for our country, I do not think it was in Americas best interest to attack Libya and to remain in Iraq and Afghanistan ... Do you?
You can be outraged of the wasted money in Iraq, shouldn't there be outrage over the continued and prolonged war in Iraq, the escalated war in Afghanistan and the illegal war in Libya?
US cost of Libyan warU.S.: $896 million so far ..just a tad more than you quoted.
UK's cost 260m
French 160 mln euros
steamed
The FF has been trying to finagle Gaddafi out of some of those rockets for years. Now with the NATO invasion we scored all of them and will install the FF in government positions. We don;t he have to fight to win; the enemy defeats itself.