The teabaggers are nuts. I don't even know why a conservative would want to associate with them.
They are nuts for wanting to bring the Government back to the Constitutional Limits? Remove corrupt politicians? Restore freedom and liberty that the Government stole? Stop the Marxist/Socialist/Progressive/Liberals? No, I think you're nuts.
Don't you see that you're just spitting out talking points you've been propagandized with? You don't even fully understand who and what you are fighting for.
That I know, those are not talking points as dimocrats love to use across the state run media, and the current conditions of our government is not even remotely okay. If we spent like the feds, we'll be homeless and thrown in jail. I want almost hundred years of progressive BS destroyed back to income tax and federal reserve with all those entitlement programs thrown on the pyre of history. Propaganda my ass, it's the truth.
The government has expanded beyond the original Constitutional limits over a long period of time, but in modern history, no one expanded government power more than George W Bush.
The Patriot Act, the warrantless wiretapping, the holding of prisoners on foreign soil to avoid the US judicial system, the list goes on and on.
The Tea Party people are pretending that the excessive spending and the grab for extra presidential power just started in 2009, are pretending that the president isn't legitimate due to being born in Africa, are pretending that government spending for health care is somehow against the Constitution (and somehow no one noticed this since the VA health care system and Medicare were created decades ago, and just for goofy measure, are pretending that conservatives really hate bankers and banking.
Hell, some even claim that watermelon is being grown on the White House lawn, but I think they are just kidding about that.
Give me a friggin' break already!
PS The Federal Reserve was created in what, 1913. Getting this worked up over it nearly a century later seems odd to me. Do you really not see this point, thebaron?
The Tea Party people are pretending that the excessive spending and the grab for extra presidential power just started in 2009...
Have you even been watching the videos posted here on Madville about the tea party movement? Hell, watch the video linked to above and you'll see them berate the Presidents back to Kennedy!
...are pretending that the president isn't legitimate due to being born in Africa...
Now you are confusing birthers with the tea party. I'm sure the birthers support the tea party movement (as the tea party members want to throw out Obama with the rest of the bums), but that doesn't mean the tea party movement supports the birthers.
...are pretending that government spending for health care is somehow against the Constitution (and somehow no one noticed this since the VA health care system and Medicare were created decades ago
I've already show multiple times how they are violations of the Constitution. That doesn't mean they didn't happen anyway. You yourself made several claims that George Bush went beyond his power. If George Bush could easily violate the Constitution multiple times, why couldn't Medicare (the VA is not a public health care option like Medicare, since it is limited to veterans - it is essentially analogous to keeping your insurance after retiring from work)?
...are pretending that conservatives really hate bankers and banking.
The video above shows people berating both parties. Seriously, if you are going to attempt to debate those points, I suggest you watch it.
Hell, some even claim that watermelon is being grown on the White House lawn, but I think they are just kidding about that.
Now you are the one making racist claims, just like Olbermann. I suggest you go to the next tea party convention, and tell that to some of the people in the above video, see what they do. 
PS The Federal Reserve was created in what, 1913. Getting this worked up over it nearly a century later seems odd to me.
Because the people in the video, like basically all of us, weren't alive when that happened! Do you mind explaining to me how I am supposed to get worked up in 1913 when I wasn't born in 1978? Are you really going to argue that just because something has been around for that long, we shouldn't attempt to change it?
Lincoln, Wilson and LBJ have expanded the power of the govt more than GW did.
You're right Wilson created the Federal Reserve in 1913 and Tricky Dick took us off in the 1971. If people realized that the value of the dollar has fallen from $1 in 1913 to a couple pennies by today's standards they would be pissed off, most people couldn't tell you what a Silver Eagle looked like.
US Debt Clock
Anyone of you guys been grocery shopping recently and noticed how far that $20 goes compared to a year ago?
The Patriot Act in which Obama and congress have decided to keep intact and even expand more. Time for a change .. why certainly.
BTW .. there is a US Democratic US Senator from WV that actually was in the KKK. He is the longest-serving Senator as well as the longest-serving member in congressional history.
It is too much trouble, and too boring to go point by point with you, especially since your debate points are so narrow and inconsequential.
I do wonder if you have seen the 'joke' emails, photoshopped pictures showing rows of watermelons growing on the White House lawn (as representative of many 'humorous' references to the president's racial heritage) . If you have, do you see how it is possible to conclude that there is a racial element to some of the anti-Obama energy out there? If you don't see that, fine, but I would really like to know if you can see this point of view at all.
State run media. Income tax destruction. Federal Reserve destruction. 100 years of progressive "BS."
Yea, you're a loon. There's not much else to be said.
That's why I rarely come here anymore. I stay on sites like reddit where the general education level is much higher. Madville is basically the trailer park of the web, where racist nutjobs come out of the woodwork and where people who talk about the abolition of the federal reserve are considered "true thinkers.
You really come off as snobbishly superior in attitude and not any more intelligent than the typical MVer.
Not an attractive combination. 
It's not hard to come off that way when the average person on this site has an IQ of 70.
Who cares where you go when you aren't posting your snobby, I'm a genius and you're a moron BS. You're just a troll .. wanna be tough internet guy. You don't have much of anything to share other than your political beliefs, and insults. You just don't get it, do you ... what MV is about. Goes to show that what you think education does not mean necessarily mean you're smart or wise or experienced.
Post what you want - your demeaning of other people shows what you think of yourself.
Oh get off of it. Madville is a for profit site being run by a marketing company in Dubai. It's not a real community. That's what "MV is about." It's pretty much bottom-of-the-barrel shit to drive ad impressions, which seems to attract a lot of nutjobs and also-rans.
Of course you do. Your MO is to appear objective at all costs. That's why you always interject yourself mid-conversation in attempt to be a "voice of reason" or whatnot. It's an old schtick.
What can I say TN? I am an old, reasonable guy.
Just goes to show .. you don't get it. MV has changed owners several times and is currently owned by a group out of Dubai. It's the people that make MV .. and that's what you don't get .. people .. cuz you have the charisma and personality of a douche bag. Better to be a nutjob and also ran than a douche bag internet tough guy blowhard miserable pseudo intellectual snob who tries to insinuate he cares about people with is little nationalist icon .. total BS.
With having said that, it is best to just ignore your posts for now ... as that is what you should do with trolls who go fishing for emotion and stirring up trouble.
It is too much trouble, and too boring to go point by point with you, especially since your debate points are so narrow and inconsequential.
Sure, that's why you won't respond. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you have nothing to support your statements.
I do wonder if you have seen the 'joke' emails, photoshopped pictures showing rows of watermelons growing on the White House lawn (as representative of many 'humorous' references to the president's racial heritage).
And do you have any proof those images were made and are supported by the tea party? Of course not. You are trying to generalize a specific complaint you previously made in an effort to save face.
If you have, do you see how it is possible to conclude that there is a racial element to some of the anti-Obama energy out there? If you don't see that, fine, but I would really like to know if you can see this point of view at all.
I haven't seen them (at least not that I recall, but then I don't bother to remember racist crap like that). I have no doubt there is some racial element to some of the anti-Obama remarks. You, however, tend to equate the fact that some exists means everyone who doesn't agree is automatically racist (or is a birther, or Republican, or some other group you personally dislike). It is like you can't even comprehend the fact that someone may just genuinely disagree with Obama's ideals. I can understand your dislike about Bush. I may not agree with it, but I don't think you are a nutcase for disliking him. I don't even think people are nutcases for disliking the Pope, the Dalai Lama, Mother Teresa, whoever. That is what reasoned discussion and debate is for. Blindly following anyone, be it Obama, the Pope, George Bush, Osama bin Laden, is one of the root causes of problems in the world today.
Well, i dont like debating you because you enjoy word games.
"And do you have any proof those images were made and are supported by the tea party? Of course not. You are trying to generalize a specific complaint you previously made in an effort to save face."
Sorry, looks to me like you might be saving face. *shrugs* makes it pointless in more ways then one.
Well, i dont like debating you because you enjoy word games.
Well, that makes sense, given how you Democrats tend to think of definitions as word games.
Sorry, looks to me like you might be saving face. *shrugs* makes it pointless in more ways then one.
What do I need to save face from? I merely pointed out that the existence of pictures of watermelons on the White House lawn has nothing to do with tea party. Neither you nor Gramps has provided any evidence that they are in any way related. Why don't you go join Gramps and bring up that to those people from the linked video, and let all of us know how that goes?
Note, i didnt go into you being a conservative at all.. And sorry, i'd dislike your debate style equally if you where left or right.
And what do you have to save face from? Ask yourself that, but its a trick you always use. Going off on some general, vague "Do you have proof the sky is blue" type thing.
Now we have all seen the racist photos from tea party rallys that continue to pop up, but yah, maybe there just using them for securiy.. Kinda like the rolling stones and the hells angels. Regardless, i guess no one should say anything till the tea party starts handing out robes and elects a grand dragon. (satire, like they would publicly support racists like you said above withthe "proof" bit) Lets ignore the facts of what at the rallys.
Note, i didnt go into you being a conservative at all.
Nope, you didn't. It doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a pattern with the Democrats I've noticed. Bill Clinton hedging about the definition of "is", Obama upset when he was read the definition of taxes, and Democrats here upset when I provide definitions from Merriam-Webster or Wikipedia. Yet you claim I am the one playing word games. At least I have a consistent frame of reference (you may not like my reference, but that is a different problem).
And sorry, i'd dislike your debate style equally if you where left or right.
You do understand that what you are saying is you dislike rational logic applied to situations, right?
And what do you have to save face from? Ask yourself that, but its a trick you always use. Going off on some general, vague "Do you have proof the sky is blue" type thing.
And is how is asking for proof behind Gramps claim that the tea party produced images of watermelons on the lawn of the White House general or vague? I also point out that you again are dodging questions. What do I have to save face from? Do you have any proof behind Gramps claim that the images of watermelons on the White House lawn are from the tea party? Again, those are rational, logical questions that anyone should ask. I said it before and I'll say it again, blind belief is one of the root causes of problems in the world today.
First of all this has nothing to do with definition's of words. So whatever you are going on with that, more power to you.
"And do you have any proof those images were made and are supported by the tea party?"
Sorry, i just find it completly silly because everyone knows the tea party wont endorse bad press for them, even when thats who is at the rallys. And that is all my comment was or is about. That and you do that type of thing far to often when you lack substance.. That said, normally your posts full with more substance then most.
"You do understand that what you are saying is you dislike rational logic applied to situations, right?"
No, i dislike what i mentioned above, and to claim you the only logical person conceded and condescending to everyone else here.
And no, i have never dodged questions, YOU however are dodging things (in this and previous threads) with word games like mentioned above. Sorry mate, that lawyer dance around the subject thing doesnt work out in the real world.
Thats like 2 people alone in a room, one smacks the other in the back of the head then tells the guy to prove it when he turns around... What do you think is going to happen? lol
(One of the most commonly emailed photos from 2009. If you didn't get this one, maybe your email was full for the past year. A number of Republican staffers even sent this it out to their friends)
Sorry, i just find it completly silly because everyone knows the tea party wont endorse bad press for them, even when thats who is at the rallys.
So you admit the tea party is not officially endorsing racially mocking Obama? And given the video above, your claims that it is unofficially racist is completely silly.
No, i dislike what i mentioned above, and to claim you the only logical person conceded and condescending to everyone else here.
OK, now you are lying in an effort to personally attack me. I never said I was the only logical person here. I merely said my debating style is based on rational logic.
And no, i have never dodged questions, YOU however are dodging things with word games like mentioned above. Sorry mate, that lawyer dance around the subject thing doesnt work out in the real world.
Yes, you have, and you are still doing it. You won't answer my questions of proof. You instead call them silly, or make personal attacks against me. You won't even state that you will refuse to answer them! You clearly are just hoping no one will notice that you haven't answered them. I also can't believe you actually claimed that a lawyer-style of debate doesn't work in the real world. You are aware that the government is full of former lawyers, and so are our courts?
Thats like 2 people alone in a room, one smacks the other in the back of the head then tells the guy to prove it when he turns around... What do you think is going to happen? lol
That is called deductive reasoning. It is used all the time in the real world, in court cases, in science, etc. You know, places where logic and reason rule the day.
One of the most commonly emailed photos from 2009.
Again, any proof of that claim?
A number of Republican staffers even sent this it out to their friends
While it wouldn't surprise me, do you have proof of that claim? I can also point out that the Republican party is not the tea party, despite their attempts to usurp it (again, the video shows the tea party doesn't like either major political party).
Quite simply, until you provide any shred of evidence connecting this picture to the tea party, I'm done responding (this more is because of Kano than you, Gramps).
Why would i need to admit anything when i never said otherwise? Get your fights straight *yawns*
2 i did not mention a video nore did i look at one, so again get your fights straight..
"You do understand that what you are saying is you dislike rational logic applied to situations, right?"
Well, it is saying your train of thought the only rational, logical one and alot of people here dont think like yourself. So yeah, you might not be saying the "only" one but you are getting pretty general to the un-named masses.
"Yes, you have, and you are still doing it. You won't answer my questions of proof. You instead call them silly, or make personal attacks against me. You won't even state that you will refuse to answer them! "
WTF was your question that i did not answer and that you NEVER asked me? You might have others here but not me. Again, my origional post was about your debate style nothing more really lol.. So i have no clue where you are getting the rest of this stuff your going on about.
"I also can't believe you actually claimed that a lawyer-style of debate doesn't work in the real world. You are aware that the government is full of former lawyers, and so are our courts?"
Real world meaning every day people.. You kinda made my point there, thanks.
"That is called deductive reasoning. It is used all the time in the real world, in court cases, in science, etc. You know, places where logic and reason rule the day."
Again, you didnt get it.. Maybe you need a nap. lol
Say whatever you like, jam, but your word play and nit picking doesn't change the fact that a thread of overt racism runs through the whole gamut of anti-Obama hysteria, the Tea Party being just one faction.
Notice that I didn't say everyone who is a Teabagger is a racist, so don't go and demand proof of something I didn't say.
Just about everyone has seen this kind of material, so your demands to see proof that it originates with the Tea Party are irrelevant. This material is out there, out there in abundance (just use your mad Google skills to prove it to yourself) and many individuals associated with the GOP and with the Tea Party have been associated with these materials. (The fact that some of the photos I posted were taken at Tea Party events is at least suggestive that this kind of stuff isn't unknown to this movement.
Bottom line is that there is racism in the Tea Party movement and you can't nit pick it away, because it is really there.
Racsim and sexism .. prejudice against race creed and religion is nothing new to people. There is racism in the Tea Party Movement just as there is in the repub and dem parties as well. Many will have you believe that the tea party is full of racists, that was the point of the guy who made the video to Olbermouth who has asked where the people of color are in the Tea Party Movement.
I haven't seen half these pics that Gramps has posted - yet I'd imagine he visits sites that have a strong dislike for the Tea Party and I visit sites that are usually on the other side of the fence. I never saw the watermelon picture .. really Gramps.
There should be no room for racism in this country ... or world.
geez missed all the fun.
Well, its hard to start a public group and not have it taken over by some with other ideals too.. Minute Men ended up the same way. I'd be willing to say sure it wasnt started with or have a core that is racist.. But i'll also be willing to say sure, its prob been over swamped with racists at this point and that prob a good replacment core/back bone of there group, at this point. I can go further to say that supporting a group that will accept members like that to promote a political ideal, well that makes that supporter on about the same level as those racists who did join the group.
And yeah, i dont get why they would want to be mixed in them either other then it a propaganda war. Its clear the "tea party" not what it cut out to be.
All of these images have been well circulated, and many are photos taken at Tea Party events. Are you SURE you haven't seen any racist Tea Party material jam? (I didn't post any of the really vile stuff you can see just by a quick Goggle search. The Hitler and/or Stalin material is so offensive I couldn't bring myself to post it here. Most of that material came straight from Tea Party events too.
Not racist my ass!
I looked up those photos. Numbers one, two, and seven were taken at GOP rallies, not tea party rallies. That is from the article you took the pictures from. Numbers three and four were not taken at any rallies. Photo number five is of an accused ACORN aggitator. Sign number six isn't even racist. It is also clearly allegorical (although the Hitler references are tiring, overdone, and just ridiculous at this point). The last picture is claimed to be from a tea party rally here. It pulled those images from someone who left a post on Media Matters (the link is in the article). If you follow the link, you see that the pictures actually came from GOP rallies.
So, of all the pictures you provided, the only one that was from the tea party wasn't even racist! I also can't help but notice you didn't provide the original locations where you got the pictures (not surprising given that the context pretty damns your claims).
Okay, I give up, you are right. There is nothing at all racist about the Tea Party!
I thought it was funny at first, but then I heard the chimps were insulted by the comparison.
(If you can look at the tons of material like the stuff I posted above and then make a comparison to the Bush/chimp thing, well I just don't know what to say to you except that isn't much parity there.)
I thought you were going to say it was his brother Jed.
Gramps ... you are serious aren't you when you think that the majority of people in the Tea Party are racists and it's us against them. I've heard you constantly .. even from their start calling them teabaggers - such a clever term for for average people expressing their feelings when they don't run congruent to yours. Then they really have you believing the whole left right dem repub exclusive universe. I guess freedom of speech isn't in one of your top ten bill of rights.
I'm not condoning these posters/pictures - the man is our president - show him some RESPECT. I know we've had this discussion before when GW was prez .. it did not stop you from a daily rant against GW who was the US president at the time .. the posts from the smirking chimp .. or was it the smoking chimp?? The protests across the land against GW and the war in the middle east .. where are those people now .. has the war stopped or ended .. no it's escalated. It seems like it was trendy to be against the war .. the words often used were .. why just because I disagree with the president doesn't mean I'm not a patriot was echoed throughout the land.
Just a google of George Bush Posters over 3 million hits .. the difference was that so many people thought it was trendy and now so many of those same people are offended.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander .. or pot calling the kettle black .. not sure which really applies here .. I just know that these people have the right to show posters, at least in the US they do ... I would not carry one or think that they are clever.
ARE YOU KIDDING?
Jeb is the smart one in the family.
I don't see that my criticisms of Bush's policies (many of which turned out to be correct) compare with what the some of the Tea Party people are saying. And I never said that every single person in that movement is a racist. In fact, I think they make a couple of good points.
But it really isn't a party in the usual sense, and includes a lot of fringe thinking from a lot of fringe groups.
The right to criticize our government is a cherished right, but WTF are these Birthers thinking? They sound pretty crazy to me. Now, it is true, that a lot of my friends and peers thought I was on the wacky fringe of political thinking back in '02 when I went around saying that Saddam didn't have enough chemical or biological weapons to pose a serious threat to the security of the US. Worse, I came right out and said that Iraq had no active nuclear weapons program at all. My buddies used to shake their heads in amazement at my "liberal" point of view, which turned out to be an objective, reality based point of view. In other words, I was correct.
Now the fringe point of view is that the president grows watermelon on the lawn, was born in Kenya, and is just like Hitler (or Stalin or Marx) for suggesting that the tens of millions of Americans without health care insurance need to get coverage. Oh, the humanity!
Stuff that Bush did for years without a peep from these folks is suddenly unconstitutional now that a guy they didn't vote for is in office. Spending which has been out of control since 2001 is now an urgent problem requiring everything up to secession to deal with.
The difference is reality versus kookiness. See my point?
It is a requirement to be the president to be a native born US Citizen and a proper birth certificate should be required. A certificate of live birth don't cut it. Why would they spend over a million to prevent the real birth certificate from being release as it is a requirement to gain the job? Why has he locked down all his background from any public eye?
Iraq should have been taken care of years ago when they did not follow what they agreed to and I don't really care about WMD. That was smoke and mirrors, but there was information that the Russians moved many items out of country....
Spending was out of control and we should have started reducing the size of federal government years ago, but BO has take that to new highest and the Democrat controlled Senate has given almost 2 trillion more credit for them to thrown money into the fire.
I will not give Obama a single ounce of respect until he stops the spending, decrease government size, reduces taxes, and stops lying through his teeth on almost every subject. If he was Pinocchio, he would not be able to walk due to nose length. Respect is earned not given freely even to the president. Bush lost my respect by his second term, but BO has been amateur hour from moment one and blaming everyone but themselves is getting old.
Let me see if I can help you here, Big T. The issue of where a candidate for president was born has been a long and almost totally unnecessary issue in American politics. Nixon was born in New Mexico and some ignoramuses tried to make that an issue. Some people were even fooled by this, not realizing that New Mexico is a US State, perhaps having flunked 5th grade geography.
George W Bush and Dick Cheney were residents of the same State (Texas) and the Constitution requires the Prez and the VP to be from different States. Wyoming had to overrule its own residency requirements in an emergency measure to make Cheney a resident of their State, even though he satisfied none of the legal requirements for Wyoming residency. This is an interesting Constitutional footnote, but I wonder if a single Bush/Cheney 2000 voter would have voted for Gore if they knew about this issue. My guess is that the number of votes changed would be in single digits (if you count zero as a single digit).
The Obama Birther issue is 100% bullshit. It is well documented that Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961 and that is all that really matters to satisfy the Constitution. The rest of the 'issue' is irrelevant at best, and certainly disingenuous. Every single GOP or conservative talking head, including elected officials, talk show hosts, or consultants I have seen on TV have uttered the same word for word statement that acknowledges that Obama was 'probably' born in Hawaii, but that they aren't sure, which leaves the impression that there is some doubt, which there is not. There is no 'THERE' there at all.
As for Iraq, Bush 41 and Clinton did do something. There were two No Fly Zones in Iraq which were enforced. Saddam wasn't going anywhere. The invasion was unnecessary, is going to cost us a trillion dollars, speaking of spending, and was sold to the public irresponsibly and untruthfully.
Obama is spending like crazy, but only to deal with the near collapse of the US economy, the condition he found it in when he took office. His spending is well grounded in post-Depression economic theory.
They should have allowed the collapse to allow the bad companies to be replaced by better companies that would survive and there is little support that their wasteful spending helped any and the post-depression spending caused the problems to go on for almost 9 years more than it should have.
Why is spending tons of OUR money to prevent his real birth certificate from being released? Still don't make much sense. His personal records should not be completely locked down as he has done.
Saddam should have removed during Desert Storm and he kept breaking the terms over and over, which should have lend to his destruction immediately and not years later.
Heywood_Jablome
I went to the convention and I'm starting to think there maybe something to the racist accusations...
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Tea Party Convention 2010