low, but that's not the point. i don't want a single dollar of my taxes going to this bullshit.
$320 of everyone's tax money could be used much more efficiently than buying more bombs and installing a puppet government in another nation...what about feeding everyone in our own?
320x250,000,000.00=80,000,000,000.00
that is about right...
If you are so unhappy...leave...besides, I feel better paying taxes to spend on war, then paying them to support a welfare system and other government works programs that are abused repeatedly...
Exactly. 70% of the citizens in the US support the war. The people that don't like it can keep protesting, but everyone's minds are made up at this point. If people are unhappy with it, they can either live with it or leave.
70% of people who answer the polls you've been reading, anyway...which i doubt are completely representative of the population.
i'd rather buy bombs than buy food for homeless people.
And I'd rather buy bombs that pay for abused systems, crooked politician salaries, and (now-ex) presidents getting their chub sucke d in the oval office. 
Read the latest Time magazine. Your 70% is about 55% if I recall.
70% of the US population supports the war! Bwahahaha! What a load of bull****. There is so much wrong with this number I don't even know where to begin.
This number assumes EVERY SINGLE person in the US was polled. This assumes the survey didn't have leading questions, such as, "The upcoming war in Iraq is crucial to the future of the US. Do you support it?" This assumes the poll was taken by a n independent organization, rather than some pro-war establishment like, oh, say the US government, or other right-wing nutjobs. What is the margin of error? Where are the breakdown of the results? Over how many days was the poll taken? When was it taken?
Nice try, facts boy.
[Comment was edited by fpp on February 26, 2003 at 04:18:21 PM]
"If people are unhappy with it, they can either live with it or leave."
Or they can continue protesting and talking back against government policy, and they can always try and vote out the politicians whose stance they don't like.
As opposed to every other poll taken by the media? They are very legitimate...right...
That's funny, I never mentioned the media. The media is no more qualified to run polls than the US government is.
What I find really funny is that let's say, for argument's sake, that 70% of the US population really does support the war? So what? That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. It just means 70% of the population buys into the propaganda and fear the government spits out.
What if I were to say that 70% of the US population thought the "Pet Rocks" that were sold decades ago were good products? So what? It's still a stupid product that was driven with relentless advertising, convincing millions of people that it was a great thing to have!
"70% of the US population supports the war! Bwahahaha! What a load of bull****. There is so much wrong with this number I don't even know where to begin."
I'll begin.
"This number assumes EVERY SINGLE person in the US was polled."
It's painfully obvious you haven't taken anything higher than Algebra in college (if you ever went). In order to get a +/- 5% accurate poll out of 250,000,000 people, you must randomly poll 650 people. That means if polling centers call up 650 people at random (which they do), you can get a fairly accurate reading (within five percentage points) of what the opinion of any given population is.
"This assumes the survey didn't have leading questions, such as, "The upcoming war in Iraq is crucial to the future of the US. Do you support it?""
Look for yourself The polling indicates (as of the last polling - Feb 25 2003), 66% of American citizens favor the U.S. going to Iraq to remove Saddam from power. My 70% stat is within the 4% margin of error. Incedentally, that's precisely how the question is worded.
"This assumes the poll was taken by a n independent organization, rather than some pro-war establishment like, oh, say the US government, or other right-wing nutjobs."
Compilation of many polling centers.
"What is the margin of error?"
4%
"Where are the breakdown of the results?"
90% Republicans, 57% Democrats, 57% Independents.
"Over how many days was the poll taken?"
The polls change day to day in response to the on going current events in Iraq. When Saddam says something stupid, the polls go up. When the inspectors find something (like they did today), the polls go up. With an event like Iraq, it's crucial to take the poll numbers day by day.
"When was it taken?"
Feb. 25, 2003.
"Nice try, facts boy."
Now, what stats do you have for today?
Have a nice day.
[Comment was edited by dj28 on February 26, 2003 at 05:23:04 PM]
Wow, I'm impressed. You really showed me. That must mean the war is still the right thing to do.
Great logic!
I said that 70% of the American people support war. I didn't make a moral judgement. You were arguing the stat.
Nice jackass response--the leave part that is.
So dissenting opinions are unacceptable in America? Hrmm...
And if you ever took a high school Prob and Stat class, you'd know that there's no such thing as an accurate poll. After the 2000 election, I'd say that mixing projections with politics is an especially pernicious business.
Uh, the election debackle had NOTHING to do with statistics algorithms being wrong. It has EVERYTHING to do with people in polling centers polling before the margin of error queue was met. Couple that with the closest election in history, and you quickly see how a +/- 4% margin of error can fuck you up over hundreds of counties.
Two mutually exclusive circumstances. Nice try though.
When will Americans realize the only reason Mr. Bush is fighting in Iraq is because he was unable to find Bin... You're dealing with a trigger happy red neck that's looking for a fight.
when will people realize that they are a bunch of brainwashed fucks and that patriotism is a load of shit?
Frankly, I'm appalled. You've obviously forgotten that a fucking group of ragheads killed our people on our soil. And you say patriotism is a load of shit? Man, you need to wake up and smell the napalm. Especially with bitches like Tori Smith turning their fucking back on the flag. That doesn't protest war, it protests freedom. Patriotism isn't even just a lasting feeling from Sept.2001. It's an idea that we've had forever, throughout the creation of this great country and it's what fuels us in wars. We will have patriotism even in defeat - at least I will.
Maybe we will move onto that once we are done dealing with vegetarian fucks like you...
I think it's OK to be patriotic, but being a Canadian, an outsider to the US, with many Canadian friends in the US, I can see why the US is hated so much. It's BECAUSE of their blind, unfailing patriotism that Americans are often hated so much in foreign countries.
My wife's best friend is a Canadian who married an American, and he simply can't understand it when his wife tells him, "Uh, honey, many people hate Americans". He just can't understand it. "Why would anyone hate Americans? It's the best country in the world!" And he goes on and on about how great the US is, and how everyone should love it. It's exactly that arrogant attitude that makes them hated.
Like I said, it's OK to be patriotic, but moderation is the key, and openness to debate is also important.
[Comment was edited by fpp on February 26, 2003 at 04:49:19 PM]
Patriotism is a load of shit? Love of your country is not a load of shit. Pride in one's country is not a load of shit. Patriotism is what once made America great, and once we get some politicians in office that care more about the people than what they are going to be doing once they get out of office, America will be great once again.
Just a thought about patriotism in America....and its not aimed at Dukey. I just think it fits in as a reply, rather than a whole new post.
Oh, and as an aside, I actually support the upcoming removal of Saddam Hussein, but not for the reasons most people seem to.
Anyway...where was I ? Oh yeah...patriotism.
Over here in Ireland, whenever patriotism came around as a topic of discussion, some friends of mine would ridicule the fact that American children would recite the Pledge of Allegiance in the classroom.
I was always quick to defend it. Personally, I think its great that
pride in ones country and traditions is taught at such an early age. Some might call it brainwashing, but I've always thought that we here in Ireland have always lacked respect for the history of our country, and the sacrifices made to achieve our independence from England. We should have some way to remind ourselves of the lengths to which our forefathers went so we could live as we do today.
The POA, the general respect for your history and indeed, your patriotism, is one of the things that makes the USA such an example to the rest of the world.
However...I've noticed over the past year and a half that some people in the US are all too quick to condemn people as unpatriotic because they question their government, or tell them they should leave the country if they didnt agree with current policy.
So let me get this straight - "Welcome to America...the land of the free. The placed where one and all can stand up and speak out against anything in which they don't believe, because this freedom of beliefs and speach is what this country was founded on. Oh...except Government policy. If you don't like that, Get the fuck out".
Those of you who condemn people, people I personally disagree with on this occasion, for speaking out and asking questions, should be ashamed of yourselves. Those people are more patriotic than you are.
[Comment was edited by Shiva on February 26, 2003 at 04:52:10 PM]
My husband is American, living here in Canada. He can't even believe now, what some Americans are like. He said, leaving the States and living elsewhere really gives you a different perception. Although he loves his country, he often can't get over some of the attitudes, something he didn't noticed while living there. He was one, who thought America was the best but now living outside of the US he realizes, that isn't necessarily the case at all.
[Comment was edited by eh? on February 26, 2003 at 04:54:36 PM]
Sphere...
Exactly. That's what so many Americans are missing; some perspective. And a sense of humour about it. They usually take themselves too seriously, and they often don't laugh at themselves well:
Some outside of North America citizen: "Canada sucks!"
Canadian: "Yeah, we know. Too much bloody snow. And isn't that Jean Cretien an idiot?"
Same citizen: "America sucks!"
American: "Why you piece of ****! America is the greatest country in the world! You'll never know because we won't let your third world ass in! Maybe we should blow your crappy little country off the face of the planet! God Bless the United States of America, the greatest country in the world!"
[Comment was edited by fpp on February 26, 2003 at 05:04:14 PM]
[Comment was edited by fpp on February 26, 2003 at 05:05:41 PM]
people are brainwashed and dumb but they will never realize it.
unfortuantely tv and politics and corporations in general like to keep it that way so it's never gonna change
this is very well stated. good point.
Iraq has no known links to Al-Qaeda so just end it with that revenge bullshit.
I live it Ireland too... but it's the North, so it's a mixture of us being either irish or british. It's just so messed up it's hard to believe and I still get on with everyone, to be honest it's nice to take advantage of deals within the 'UK region' , but I would really like a united Ireland... mixing it up just doesn't work.
Well, well.....I thought I was the only Paddy bringing enlightenment to the great unwashed hordes of Madville.
And it turns out you're registered even longer than I am !
I don't feel so lonely anymore.
BLEH
its hard to argue for or against the war...people on the antiwar side are so consumed in their beliefs that the war is all for oil, the government is unjust, we shouldn't be bothering people etc etc
that they forget...people live in danger...wake up, put down that cappuchino and mocha and get the fuck out if you don't like what this country of ours is doing
So people should leave if they disagree with what the leaders of their country are doing? That makes sense. Follow and obey or get out?
It's amazing how many people like yourself are oblivious to the fact that what the U.S. is doing affects not only Americans, but everyone everywhere. "Get the fuck out...." as you have put it, wouldn't do any good.
Forgot though, typical american, there isn't anything beyond your own border.......
what i mean is
most anti-war protestors ignore the facts we give out that supports our argument for war
the arguments the anti's throw out usually are wrought with emotion and little political insight
eh i'm not gonna argue...i stay in middle for this one
the way i see it and from where i'm coming from...the risks are too high
UN sanctions and resolutions only amounted starving the people of iraq and not saddam
what can the UN possibly do to disarm saddam...until certain things change i don't see peaceful resolutions happening any time in the future
[Comment was edited by nobodyfamous on February 26, 2003 at 05:12:36 PM]
You know I got a question thats alittle off subject but oh well. Why do we tell the country we're about to attack that we're going to war with them? Why don't we just just kill the fucks before they know whats going on? It would be so much simpler and easier to do that. Just my two cents for the day.
[Comment was edited by Joe Cool on February 26, 2003 at 05:09:35 PM]
Normally you'd be right--giving up the benefit of surprise is usually pretty stupid.
But when you are a thirty foot tall giant fighting a four pound weakling...
And no, I don't care about David or Goliath.
One thing I've asked every pro-war person and can't get a straight answer from:
"Why do we have to goto war in the next six months?" Restated: "What is the imminent danger we face such that six more months of weapons inspections [which i would agree are fruitless*] are warranted useless?"
In short, I don't understand why the US shouldn't let the inspections go for another several months and show the global community that's he fukn w/the process. As it is now, if we goto war in the next month or so, many nations can bitch that we didn't let the inspections run their course.
Think of it this way: if your teenage kid takes the car w/out asking and you ground him for a week, would you in the middle of that week ground him for more gregarious offenses you know he'll commit? No. You let the week run it's course, then ground him again (ie the preemptive strike if it's obviously necessary) or wait until he farks up and *then* discipline him.
the only problem with that is scale.
if your teenager fucks up the most amount of people he will hurt is himself and maybe a few others
but saddam has the supposed ability to fuck up a larger amount of people
that's why cops can arrest someoen for attempted murder, stop em before they start
Right, I agree. But the difference I see between my example and Saddam is that Saddam can only hurt Middle Easterners.
The belief this statement rests upon is that Saddam has little or no ties to Al'Qaida thus making him not a viable terrorist threat *on American soil*. And I've seen no proof that they are close knit at all. Most Muslims do not support Saddam fully (though share his anti American rhetoric) because he is not a devout Muslim. (Gassing the Kurds for starters is a no no.)
Lemme state something key to my argument: I don't give a rats ass if Saddam can or will attack his neighbors, including Israel. If he can attack America, take him out; if he cannot, screw you guys...I'm goin home.
Iraq is absolutely no threat to us if we do not start a war with them.
Saddam knows that if he attacks us (or israel) we would turn his country into a glass parking lot in an instant. On the other hand, if we start a war with him, he will do absolutely everything in his power to hurt us (or israel).
dirkdiggler
Where do I send my check?