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Sep 20, 05 02:31 pm
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cmass - OK, suppose I am teaching a course in Quantum Mechanics. I am supposed to teach only science facts not "religious conjecture." So I teach the experimental facts. Then I have to teach an interpretation of these facts. Do I teach the Copenhagen Interpretation, which Richard Feynman admitted nobody understands? Do I teach the Many Worlds Interpretation, which is more like religion because it is inherently untestable? Do I teach Bohm's Ontological Interpretation, even though I don't know anybody who believes it is even possible? Or do I tell auslanders to bugger off and leave this to the professional?

Just wondering.

Outside a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog it is too dark to read. Groucho (the original Marxist)

 
Sep 20, 05 02:53 pm
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Reply to cunninglinguist:

No, it is much simplier than that. Most grade schools and most high schools in the US don't teach quantum mechanics. I didn't learn about it myself until I was majoring in science at a Jesuit run University.

I have no problem with teaching kids any religious doctrine that their parents are comfortable, but in Sunday School, or its counterpart, Hebrew School, whatever.

In Science Class, I would like the subject to be limited to science, not some warmed over theology masquarading as science, okay?

In Biology specifically, kids need to learn about cells and DNA and chromosomes, gene sequencing, your base-sugar-phosphates kind of thing. You dig?

Ultimate Link Whore

 
Sep 20, 05 02:59 pm
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Reply to cunninglinguist:

Begin by making mention of all testable, provable ideas. Add in the fringe stuff later but explain why they are bad science (due to untestability or whatever.) For instance, if I were teaching biology, I would first go over evolution, then mention creationism/inteligent design/my-invisible-friend-did-it in the context of explaining what makes a theory and what doesn't.

Evil, a healthy alternative to goodness!

 
Sep 20, 05 03:01 pm
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Reply to Gramps:

You must have gone to public schools.

War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing -President George W

 
Sep 20, 05 04:14 pm
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Reply to Juggalo:

16 years of Catholic education

Ultimate Link Whore

 
Sep 20, 05 06:05 pm
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Reply to Gramps:

cmass - You survived 16 years of Catholic education with Jesuits on top??? I'm impressed! No, really, I am!! And you seem so normal . . .

Outside a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog it is too dark to read. Groucho (the original Marxist)

 
Sep 20, 05 06:53 pm
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Reply to Gramps:

Catholic school ,poor man's private school, teehee.

War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing -President George W

 
Sep 20, 05 08:08 pm
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Reply to Gramps:

You miss my point, cmass. Science is NOT a collection of facts! Without an interpretation or a theory, the facts are interesting but not useful. But there are some fields (like QM) in which there is only conjecture when it comes to theory. Science is rather boring if it only deals with facts.

By the way, cmass, what did the Jesuits teach you about interpreting Quantum Mechanics?

Outside a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside a dog it is too dark to read. Groucho (the original Marxist)

 
Sep 20, 05 09:11 pm
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Reply to Juggalo:

I was born blue collar, lower middle class. My parents were high school grads who worked non-stop to make a better life. The owned their own house, which my mom still lives in to this day.

My dad's parents were dirt poor European immigrants who came to America with nothing but the shirts on their backs, and the determination to make it in the New World. If that sounds funny to you, check back with us in another generation or two.

Ultimate Link Whore

 
Sep 20, 05 09:23 pm
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Reply to cunninglinguist:

Well, I think I learned that if I ever go searching for my heart's desire, I should look for it in my own back yard.

No wait, that was Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz. I dunno, something about jumping from one energy state to another. Seems to work out okay for electomagnetism and the two nuclear forces, but not so well on gravity.

It was a looong ass time ago, and I had a hard enough time getting through Organic Chemistry, much less physics.

If you are testing me, I will have to throw in the towel unless we talk Biology. We can chat about molecular diagnostics if you like. I just got some material on bi-directional gene sequencing of exons you might like.

Ultimate Link Whore

 
Sep 20, 05 10:17 pm
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Reply to Gramps:

I was just poking fun at your school not the entire "cmass" family tree. From what I've seen in your pics and "I'm going to my other home to escape the hurricane" comment, I deduce that you're fat paid. Besides my mom went to Catholic school in New Orleans, so it was just in jest.

War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing -President George W

 
Sep 20, 05 10:40 pm
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Reply to Juggalo:

You were right, I did go to poor man's private school. I am the son of a working class man, but that didn't prevent me from getting a solid education, with a moral and religious edge to it.

I take no offense to the truth, as Popeye has famously said, I yam what I yam. The fact is we can't change our roots only our future. Of course I base that on careful study of the Back to the Future movie series.

Ultimate Link Whore

 
Sep 20, 05 11:17 pm
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Reply to cunninglinguist:

You must know some Jesuits.::grin::

Ultimate Link Whore



Sep 20, 05 03:13 pm
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Everyone knows that my divine creator is better than your divine creator!

I have all the answers to lifes mysteries in this one book that my god gave me and I know the truth that you must learn, so you better listen up and act like I do and believe what I believe or I'll either kill you or cram it down your throat anyway.

Science! HA!

Bow down prostrate before the all powerful Baal and throw your pitiful sacrifices on his altar, for he is the true creator and giver of life.

All your science can't change this fact, I know it!

One nation, under Baal, with liberty and justice for all!

THE DISBELIEVERS SHALL BE EATEN BY A MILLION LOCUSTS, REGURGITATED AND RECONSTITUTED BY BAAL SO THAT THEY MAY BE CONSUMED AGAIN AND AGAIN FOR ALL ETERNITY, SUCH IS THE NATURE OF BAAL'S ULTIMATE MERCY!!!!!!!1111111!!!!!11111

When I was going through my long and bitter divorce, around the time when the fees had gone through $100,000, I asked my lawyer - a specialist with lots of experience and a Roman Catholic - what he'd do if his wife ever wanted to drag him through divorce.

 
Sep 20, 05 03:17 pm
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Reply to captain_dweeb:

Works for a living....sigh

 
Sep 20, 05 03:21 pm
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Reply to AndyPandy:

Now that is just too poignant!

I don't even know what to say, the leadership of America has almost reached the pinnacle of power and ignorance combined that has been the sole property of the Catholic Church for many, many years.
Satan is very pleased indeed.

When I was going through my long and bitter divorce, around the time when the fees had gone through $100,000, I asked my lawyer - a specialist with lots of experience and a Roman Catholic - what he'd do if his wife ever wanted to drag him through divorce.



Sep 20, 05 09:02 pm
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Creationism ... humbug, you want your kids to learn it...fine then send them to a school that will teach it and leave reality to the rest of us...

What does not kill me only makes me stronger!" - Frederick Nietzsche



Sep 21, 05 12:26 am
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bah, let them teach the THEORY of intelligent design, then let them teach the theory of evolution. Then teach them science, and how science is about testing and validating theories, and let the kids decide which theory stands up better after having done the research and testing.

That'd be too much like teaching kids to actually think, and we can't have that.


went to public school
got taught both creationism and evolution
teacher got fired after doing the above.

To this day one of my favorite teachers and I will always remember his class.


 
Sep 21, 05 12:45 am
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Reply to raz-00:

I felt the same way about my 8th grade world history teacher. I remember telling my mom how Mr Shultz taught us to think for ourselves.
Sadly it was the first year since kindergarten when I didn't mind going to school.

Every breath you take And every move you make Every bond you break Every step you take I'll be watching you Whisper my favorite words: "I'll buy it for you." What do people mean when they say the computer went down on me?

 
Sep 21, 05 12:57 am
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Reply to raz-00:

The problem is we don't teach our children to think in schools...

What does not kill me only makes me stronger!" - Frederick Nietzsche

 
Sep 21, 05 01:00 am
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Reply to Uberdr00g:

Mr Shultz taught us.

Every breath you take And every move you make Every bond you break Every step you take I'll be watching you Whisper my favorite words: "I'll buy it for you." What do people mean when they say the computer went down on me?

 
Sep 21, 05 09:54 am
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Reply to lil_peeper:

Two things I really learned from the Jesuit priests;

The Jesuits preach moral absolutism, only moral perfection is good enough, but they practice moral realativism, especially with their own behavior.

The reason that I was able to notice the above, is that they helped teach me to think for myself. So while my opinion of the good fathers has dimmed because of what I see as their hypocracy, I wil be forever grateful to them for getting me to think critically, even of them.

Ultimate Link Whore


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