Jul 28, 04 02:17 pm — MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: Thats fair. Well just stick to the issues.
BILL O'REILLY, HOST: The issues all right good. Now, one of the issues is you because youve been calling Bush a liar on weapons of mass destruction, the Senate Intelligence Committee, Lord Butlers investigation in Britain and now the 9/11 Commission have all come out and said there was no lying on the part of President Bush. Plus, Vladimir Putin has said his intelligence told Bush there were weapons of mass destruction. Wanna apologize to the president now or later?
MOORE: He didnt tell the truth, he said there were weapons of mass destruction.
O'REILLY: Yeah, but he didnt lie, he was misinformed by all of those investigations come to the same conclusion. Thats not a lie.
MOORE: Uh huh. So, in other words, if I told you right now that nothing was going on down here on the stage
O'REILLY: That would be a lie because we could see that wasnt the truth.
MOORE: Well, Id have to turn around to see it and then I would realize, oh Bill, I just told you something that wasnt true actually its President Bush that needs to apologize to the nation for telling an entire country that there were weapons of mass destruction, that they had evidence of this and that there was some sort of connection between Saddam Hussein and September 11th, and he used that as a
O'REILLY: OK, He never said that, but back to the other thing: If you, if Michael Moore is president
MOORE: I thought you said you saw the movie? I show all that in the movie.
O'REILLY: Which may happen if Hollywood, yeah, OK, fine
MOORE: But that was your question
O'REILLY: Just the issues. Youve got three separate investigations plus the president of Russia all saying British intelligence, U.S. intelligence, Russian intelligence, told the president there were weapons of mass destruction; you say he lied. This is not a lie if you believe it to be true, now he may have made a mistake, which is obvious
MOORE: Well, thats almost pathological. I mean, many criminals believe what they say is true; they could pass a lie detector test
O'REILLY: All right, now youre dancing around a question
MOORE: No, Im not. Theres no dancing.
O'REILLY: He didnt lie.
MOORE: He said something that wasnt true.
O'REILLY: Based upon bad information given to him by legitimate sources.
MOORE: Now you know that they went to the CIA, Cheney went to the CIA, they wanted that information, they wouldnt listen to anybody.
O'REILLY: They wouldnt go by Russian intelligence and Blairs intelligence too.
MOORE: His own people told him. I mean, he went to Richard Clarke the day after September 11th and said, What you got on Iraq? and Richard Clarkes going Oh well this wasnt Iraq that did this sir, this was Al Qaeda.
O'REILLY: Youre diverting the issue did you read Woodwards book?
MOORE: No, I havent read his book.
O'REILLY: Woodwards a good reporter, right? Good guy, you know who he is right?
MOORE: I know who he is.
O'REILLY: OK, he says in his book George Tenet looked the president in the eye, like how I am looking you in the eye right now and said, President, weapons of mass destruction are a quote, end quote, slam dunk. If youre the president, you ignore all that?
MOORE: Yeah, I would say that the CIA had done a pretty poor job.
O'REILLY: I agree. The lieutenant was fired.
MOORE: Yeah, but not before they took us to war based on his intelligence. This is a man who ran the CIA, a CIA that was so poorly organized and run that it wouldnt communicate with the FBI before September 11th and as a result in part we didnt have a very good intelligence system set up before September 11th.
O'REILLY: Nobody disputes that...
MOORE: OK, so he screws up September 11th. Why would you then listen to him, he says this is a slam dunk and your going to go to war.
O'REILLY: Youve got MI-6 and Russian intelligence because theyre all saying the same thing thats why. Youre not going to apologize to Bush, you are going to continue to call him a liar.
MOORE: Oh, he lied to the nation, Bill, I cant think of a worse thing to do for a president to lie to a country to take them to war. I mean, I dont know a worse
O'REILLY: It wasnt a lie.
MOORE: He did not tell the truth, what do you call that?
O'REILLY: I call that bad information, acting on bad information; not a lie.
MOORE: A seven year old can get away with that
O'REILLY: All right, your turn to ask me a question
MOORE: Mom and Dad it was just bad information
O'REILLY: Im not going to get you to admit it wasnt a lie. Go ahead.
MOORE: It was a lie, and now, which leads us to my question.
O'REILLY: OK.
MOORE: Over 900 of our brave soldiers are dead. What do you say to their parents?
O'REILLY: What do I say to their parents? I say what every patriotic American would say: We are proud of your sons and daughters. They answered the call that their country gave them. We respect them and we feel terrible that they were killed.
MOORE: But what were they killed for?
O'REILLY: They were removing a brutal dictator who himself killed hundreds of thousands of people.
MOORE: Um, but that was not the reason that was given to them to go to war: to remove a brutal dictator.
O'REILLY: Well, were back to the weapons of mass destruction.
MOORE: But that was the reason
O'REILLY: The weapons of mass destruction
MOORE: That we were told we were under some sort of imminent threat
O'REILLY: Thats right.
MOORE: And there was no threat, was there?
O'REILLY: It was a mistake.
MOORE: Oh, just a mistake, and thats what you tell all the parents with a deceased child, Were sorry. I dont think that is good enough.
O'REILLY: I dont think its good enough either for those parents.
MOORE: So we agree on that.
O'REILLY: But that is the historical nature of what happened.
MOORE: Bill, if I made a mistake and I said something or did something as a result of my mistake but it resulted in the death of your child, how would you feel towards me?
O'REILLY: It depends on whether the mistake was unintentional.
MOORE: No, not intentional, it was a mistake.
O'REILLY: Then if it was an unintentional mistake I cannot hold you morally responsible for that.
MOORE: Really, Im driving down the road and I hit your child and your child is dead.
O'REILLY: If it were unintentional and you werent impaired or anything like that.
MOORE: So, thats all it is, if it was alcohol, even though it was a mistake how would you feel towards me
O'REILLY: OK, now we are wandering.
MOORE: No, but my point is
O'REILLY: I saw what your point is and I answered your question.
MOORE: But why? What did they die for?
O'REILLY: They died to remove a brutal dictator who had killed hundreds of thousands of people
MOORE: No, that was not the reason
O'REILLY: Thats what they died for
MOORE: they were given
O'REILLY: The weapons of mass destruction was a mistake.
MOORE: Well there were 30 other brutal dictators in this world
O'REILLY: Alright, Ive got anther question
MOORE: Would you sacrifice just finish on this would you sacrifice your child to remove one of the other 30 brutal dictators on this planet?
O'REILLY: Depends what the circumstances were.
MOORE: You would sacrifice your child?
O'REILLY: I would sacrifice myself Im not talking for any children to remove the Taliban. Would you?
MOORE: Uh huh.
O'REILLY: Would you? Thats my next question. Would you sacrifice yourself to remove the Taliban?
MOORE: I would be willing to sacrifice my life to track down the people that killed 3,000 people on our soil.
O'REILLY: Al Qaeda was given refuge by the Taliban.
MOORE: But we didnt go after them, did we?
O'REILLY: We removed the Taliban and killed three quarters of Al Qaeda.
MOORE: Thats why the Taliban are still killing our soldiers there.
O'REILLY: OK, well look you cant kill everybody. You wouldnt have invaded Afghanistan you wouldnt have invaded Afghanistan, would you?
MOORE: No, I would have gone after the man that killed 3,000 people.
O'REILLY: How?
MOORE: As Richard Clarke says, our special forces were prohibited for two months from going to the area that we believed Usama was
O'REILLY: Why was that?
MOORE: Thats my question.
O'REILLY: Because Pakistan didnt want its territory of sovereignty violated.
MOORE: Not his was in Afghanistan, on the border, we didnt go there. He got a two-month head start.
O'REILLY: All right, you would not have removed the Taliban. You would not have removed that government?
MOORE: No, unless it is a threat to us.
O'REILLY: Any government? Hitler, in Germany, not a threat to us the beginning but over there executing people all day long you would have let him go?
MOORE: Thats not true. Hitler with Japan, attacked the United States.
O'REILLY: From '33 until '41, he wasnt an imminent threat to the United States.
MOORE: Theres a lot of things we should have done.
O'REILLY: You wouldnt have removed him.
MOORE: I wouldnt have even allowed him to come to power.
O'REILLY: That was a preemption from Michael Moore. You would have invaded.
MOORE: If wed done our job, you want to get into to talking about what happened before WWI, whoa, Im trying to stop this war right now.
O'REILLY: I know you are but
MOORE: Are you against that? Stopping this war?
O'REILLY: No, we cannot leave Iraq right now, we have to
MOORE: So, you would sacrifice your child to secure Fallujah? I want to hear you say that.
O'REILLY: I would sacrifice myself..
MOORE: Your child? Its Bush sending the children there.
O'REILLY: I would sacrifice myself.
MOORE: You and I dont go to war, because were too old
O'REILLY: Because if we back down, there will be more deaths and you know it.
MOORE: Say, I, Bill OReilly, would sacrifice my child to secure Fallujah.
O'REILLY: Im not going to say what you say, youre a, thats ridiculous
MOORE: You dont believe that. Why should Bush sacrifice the children of people across America for this?
O'REILLY: Look its a worldwide terrorism I know that escapes you
MOORE: Wait a minute, terrorism? Iraq?
O'REILLY: Yes. There are terrorist in Iraq.
MOORE: Oh really? So Iraq now is responsible for the terrorism here?
O'REILLY: Iraq aided terrorists. Dont you know anything about any of that?
MOORE: So, youre saying Iraq is responsible for what?
O'REILLY: Im saying that Saddam Hussein aided all day long.
MOORE: Youre not going to get me to defend Saddam Hussein.
O'REILLY: Im not? Youre his biggest defender in the media.
MOORE: Now come on.
O'REILLY: Look, if you were running he would still be sitting there.
MOORE: How do you know that?
O'REILLY: If you were running the country, hed still be sitting there.
MOORE: How do you know that?
O'REILLY: You wouldnt have removed him.
MOORE: Look, let me tell you something in the 1990s look at all the brutal dictators that were removed. Things were done; you take any of a number of countries whether its Eastern Europe, the people rose up. South Africa the whole world boycotted
O'REILLY: When Reagan was building up the arms, you were against that.
MOORE: And the dictators were gone. Building up the arms did not cause the fall of Eastern Europe.
O'REILLY: Of course it did, it bankrupted the Soviet Union and then it collapsed.
MOORE: The people rose up.
O'REILLY: Why? Because they went bankrupt.
MOORE: the same way we did in our country, the way we had our revolution. People rose up
O'REILLY: All right, all right.
MOORE: thats how you, let me ask you this question.
O'REILLY: One more.
MOORE: How do you deliver democracy to a country? You dont do it down the barrel of a gun. Thats not how you deliver it.
O'REILLY: You give the people some kind of self-determination, which they never would have had under Saddam
MOORE: Why didnt they rise up?
O'REILLY: Because they couldnt, it was a Gestapo-led place where they got their heads cut off
MOORE: Well thats true in many countries throughout the world
O'REILLY: It is, its a shame
MOORE: and you know what people have done, theyve risen up. You can do it in a number of ways . You can do it our way through a violent revolution, which we won, the French did it that way. You can do it by boycotting South Africa, they overthrew the dictator there. Theres many ways
O'REILLY: Im glad weve had this discussion because it just shows you that I see the world my way, you see the world your way, alright and the audience is watching us here and they can decide who is right and who is wrong and thats the fair way to do it. Right?
MOORE: Right, I would not sacrifice my child to secure Fallujah and you would?
O'REILLY: I would sacrifice myself.
MOORE: You wouldnt send another child, another parents child to Fallujah, would you? You would sacrifice your life to secure Fallujah?
O'REILLY: I would.
MOORE: Can we sign him up? Can we sign him up right now?
O'REILLY: Thats right.
MOORE: Wheres the recruiter?
O'REILLY: Youd love to get rid of me.
MOORE: No, I want you to live. I want you to live.
O'REILLY: I appreciate that Michael Moore everybody. There he is.
since we are clearing things up:
Really? I saw that TV show and I actually though Moore fucking owned O'Reilly when he asked him if he would sacrifice his child to secure Iraq. O'Reilly never answered him.
I agree. There was a better way for Bill to answer that. I'm kinda pissed off that he didn't show him what a volunteer military really stands for
He should have said, "It is up to my child to make that decision. If he so chooses to die for the cause, then I fully support him."
Instead, he just gave them lame ass answer, "I would sacrifice myself" without ever addressing the question. In the process, Moore came out looking like the victor by far in that debate.
think he might have been trying to apply that.
that HE would .. but he cant say anything for anyone else. He dont have the right.
Same as if he was the father of a child he would not have to right to say yes or no.
thats what i got from it anyway. I didnt see it either. Im just reading it
Did we sign a draft recently????
Isnt all of the U.S Military Volunteer???
That is what I thought when I listened to it (of course I heard it several hours later than you guys.)
Yeah, I find it absolutely hilarious that ubrunning thinks this is Moore getting his ass whopped, when clearly it was in Moore's favor. Even though Moore is still a pompous jackass, he pales in comparison to the ass-jackedness of O'Reilly and Bushco.
Yes another documented example of ubrunning brining the right-wing party down. dj you should seriously consider rounding up a petition and banning this twit before he costs Bush the election.
I'll sign the petition banning you. Again, Madville was a lot better when you wern't here. So go fuck yourself and leave. No one cares about you or your fucked up, self-gratifying views so fuck off.
And what are you doing for mv?
Surely you are not making it any more entertaining.
There you go again, repeating exactly the same cut down I used. You should seriously consider firing the guy writing your material.
... I know you are but what am I?
It was unimpressive from both sides. Both Moore and O'Reilly just end up repeating themselves.
Moore sounds liberal and O'Reilly sounds conservative. Whatta shock...
Talking about the Iraq war is not a liberal vs conservative conversation, but I can see why Bush's supporters would want to cast it that way. It gets conservatives to rally around Bush, who still insists he made the correct decision, in spite of all of the evidence to the contrary.
Bush fucked up.
He made the wrong decision.
He never should have taken us to war based on the data available at the time.
There was very little to suggest that Saddam was anywhere near to being the threat they made him out to be, and some of the material presented to the public was fraudulent.
He lied.
You can't put a sugar coating of conservatism on lies and mistakes and turn it into something good. It ISN'T good. It is BAD!
I told you already, we don't need any of that level headed thinking around these parts. We like extremist nonsensical arguments and comments that involve statements like "useless oblviousnesses" and "institutionalizedation reality."
Don't forget "rhetoric", and pointing to websites like this and claiming that they are "proof" of anything.
Sorry 
It was an intelligence failure.
It was a failure of imagination.
The intelligence community gave me bad information.
I got a lot of bad advice.
The dog ate my homework.
Anyone who disagrees with me hates America.
Michael Moore is fat.
Some of the data I used to make my decision was very credible and reliable, but wrong.
It was Bill Clinton's fault.
Did I mention that the dog ate my homework?
Chelsea Clinton is ugly.
Hillary has fat thighs.
Anyone who disgrees with me is liberal.
All your criticism are belong to patently false leather shoes (thanks to ubrunning for the inspiration for that one)
Moore is a big fat lying turd from a giant festering butt hole. My only hope is that turd sinks.
Gramps
I heard about this exchange on the radio today and it is even duller in print.
I don't see that anything was accomplished by this debate.
While it is true that many sources said that Saddam had WMDs, there were others that said he may have some, but they are probably old and out of date, making them useless. Some sources said that he was trying to buy uranium for a new nuclear program, while others said it was probably not true.
Based on a highly selective reading of the available information, Bush took us to pre-emptive war. A high risk decision. He was wrong, or he lied, take your pick.
It matters which it was, but other things matter more.
He took a big risk and he was proven wrong. He could have stepped up the inspections, tightened the sanctions, beefed up the no-fly zones, and many other steps. Anyone who watched him during this period could see that he was itching for a war with Iraq. He never said Saddam without saying 9/11. Never mentioned Iraq without mentioning terrorism. Linked the two together. No one made him do it. The dog didn't eat his homework. It isn't Tenet's fault. Bush made the decision, and if you believe that we are all responsible for our own actions, then Bush must accept the consequences of his actions. Losing his job as commander in chief is the MILDEST consequence imaginable for his reckless, stupid, and wrong actions.
Unless you don't go along the idea that people should accept personal responsibity for their actions.