Jul 06, 04 01:50 am — There has been much discussion recently regarding the future of Madville and it is pretty obvious there are and have always been two very distinct "camps" within Madville. There are those that primarily want relatively controlled discussions and commentary and those that want Madville to be uncensored and contain more spirited content where people can say whatever they want.
Both camps seem to believe that their respective "style" is best for the future of Madville. I think Madville would continue to thrive with either "style" adopted. Obviously the site would attract different types of members depending on which "style" was encouraged but I think either would end up being successful.
Madville has experienced a significant amount of internal controversy as it has tried to keep both of these types of members happy at the same time When Madville tries to keep the more "controlled" members happy than it upsets the more "spirited" members and vice versa.
It seems to me it would make allot of sense to have a Madville spin-off that is more uncensored and appeals more to the "spirited" debate group. The new website would have a completely different group of moderators of course. The domain name could be associated with Madville like VeryMadville.com, Madvilleuncencored.com or Madville2.com or it could be unrelated. Both websites could have a friendly competition to prove that their "style" of website generates more traffic and more new members.
In the beginning, all the current members of Madville would automatically be registered with the new website and all the current links and journals would be copied to the new website just to give it a running start. I can also send quite a bit of traffic to the new website to give it some decent traffic.
The new website would have a lead moderator elected from within a group of people who would choose to "defect" to the new website and from any of the currently banned members if they choose to "join". The elected "lead" moderator could appoint any moderators they wish and adopt whatever guidelines he (or she) wishes.
In the wise words of Linda Richmond ...."discuss amongst yourselves".
I fully endorse Anathema's candidacy for dictator.
More like ass pirate.
i think this might just god damn motherfucking work...
and,, i for one will be there with fucking bells on!!!!::grin::
Just imagine...dj28, jeex, Juggalo, duztin, tasty, and countless other victims of jail's inability to listen to all users...It brings a tear to my eye.
[Comment was edited by Anathema on July 06, 2004 at 03:05:29 AM]
Tar eh.....
Well, what about those that want to taint both sites?
Good point, Jizz.
MIYH, I really love that idea. But, there are always the ones who love to hide in cyberspace just to spew stupid crap.
The concept is a good one. The MV people who want to visit both sides can do so, and the ones who want to "pick a side" can do so as well.
I say we give it a go! gotta love the internet....
Victims ???
While the idea does sound good, there are several things that have to be considered.
I'm absolutely positive that one site will outgrow the other. Madville has always been a stop for people looking for stuff to keep themselves busy, but also for the community. The community has always been great & supportive and people have been generaly cool. If you have two sites, I'm almost positive that the people that are still active in the community (and you have to admit, there's not a lot of us left) will split up and eventualy both communities are gonna be very small, if not dead.
MV is cool as it is now. I'd unban the people that were banned and keep this one site. However, all people that were banned were banned for a reason, and while I'm not saying everything should be controlled and uptight, we should have certain boundaries as to what can and cannot be done. Or maybe set up a flame forum where people can bash each other as much as they want. But don't split up MV.
VeryMadville.com = Fark (if not immidiately, eventualy).
Keep Madville united!
I think you're wrong. You people who insist that we all play nice with each other will stay here wondering why your user base is shrinking, while those of us who can handle things a little more rough will have our community, which will probably grow and grow.
I never said I want everyone to play nice. And I don't mind handling things a little more rough. I just said that we should not split MV up. A community is exactly that - a community of people - every kind of people. As far as I'm concerned, if MV does split up, I will be visiting both sites, but that's beyond the point. If we want the community to work, we need to figure out a way to work together and fit everything in.
I agree, why not keep Madville as one and set up some sort of flame forum or something where that can be the only unguidelines free space on the site. People can go there and do whatever it was that got them banned or would have gotten them banned before free of worries but in the rest of the forums and journals and such, while they still can be opinionated, foulmouthed, or whatever....the outright person bashing has it's place elsewhere.
I'm getting pretty tired of hearing the same old comments and accusations time after time, with nothing to back them up.
The usual "I want to go somewhere where I can say what I want" is just garbage. You people make it sound like your freedom to speak has been taken away, and that everyone who was banned is some kind of political martyr, ostracised because they dared to speak out against authority.
Frankly...you all need to grow up. Every one of those banned was banned because they either abused the site or another user.
None of you have had your freedom to express yourselves taken away - hell, take a look at NobodyFamous's last few hundred comments - if thats not freedom of speech I dont know what is.
If you want chaos - go to Fark, SomethingAwful or EHOWA. There's nobody making you stay here, and frankly, I think madville would be better off without you.
I'm sorry - splitting up Madville is a terrible idea. Let those who want "freedom to say what they want" ( in other words, behave like morons ) go somewhere else to do so. We're all free to frequent other sites, and I'm sure they'll always be welcome here as well, provided they follow the guidelines which were set down when this site was created, and which have helped make it the success it is today.
"I'm getting pretty tired of hearing the same old comments and accusations time after time, with nothing to back them up."
Get over it.
Here, Here.
What I find funny is that all of the banned users who profess to hate this place, STILL find ways to visit it on a regular basis.
On top of that, I think miyh needs to realize that there aren't really two factions. There are thousands of users that enjoy Madville exactly the way it is. The few that actually contribute by posting comments, however, are divided.
Now.. if I'm not mistaken... I can think of at least two attempts to bring the banned users of Madville together to form their own site that have failed miserably because those users had nothing in common except hatred for Madville (and Jail and myself), and the ability to flame uncontrollably. Of course, these constant flames kept the majority of users away, thus, causing the owners of said sites to just shut down.
Now, before these users jump me and tell me that that isn't the reason why they shut down, or that isn't how it went.. stop for a minute and think about it.. the side of the story of the banned users you have isn't how it went, either.
Hey, guess what? This isn't your site. MIYW has made twice as many suggestions about improving the site than you have your entire stint here, and he hasn't been here long at all. Instead of chronically bitching about what you are tired of hearing, provide some solutions on how to make the site better without cutting the traffic to this site in half. And not changing anything isn't a solution.
Or the other alternative is to just leave and go somewhere else like you suggest other people do all the time.
[Comment was edited by SeanHannity on July 06, 2004 at 01:19:01 PM]
Which two sites are you referring to?
How do you know whats been discussed in the background away from the journals ? Hmmm ?
Nice try.
Next !
What I find funny is that all of the banned users who profess to hate this place, STILL find ways to visit it on a regular basis.
I don't find that funny - I take that as more of a compliment. Madville must be doing Something right if users keep coming back after being banned, no?
On top of that, I think miyh needs to realize that there aren't really two factions. There are thousands of users that enjoy Madville exactly the way it is. The few that actually contribute by posting comments, however, are divided.
Isn't that, like ... 3 factions? The fact of the matter is, something needs to be done. We can't just pretend like nothing ever happened and continue on our merry way.
A second site has the potential to breed contempt for the original site and its members. I don't like the possibility of the two sites turning on each other and dividing the community.
Letting the banned walk the earth again is no big deal -- let them rejoin Madville and deal with situations on a case-by-case basis.
There's a point to having rules and regulations. People can still be smart, witty, silly, assertive, opinionated, foul-mouthed, political, and even defensive. Guidelines aren't meant to keep people down -- they increase respect for each other and the site. And if people feel the rules are keeping them down, I'm not sure what it is they're looking for. The freedom to abuse other users? Maybe this isn't the site for them. If these rules were taken away, I know it wouldn't be the site for me. I would exercise my choice to participate in a site that meets my needs.
Running a site like this appears to be a series of complications. Having basic rules of behavior makes admin jobs a lot easier. And it keeps the community attractive to people who appreciate its value.
I came for the links and stayed for the community. I hope it stays together.
And that is just my opinion.
~65s~
Very well stated. And I agree with you.
Agreed!
Let 'em back in and keep the one site. It's the internet, people shouldn't be so tenderheaded.
Many of the people that were banned made this site interesting to me. I'm getting tired of logging on every day and seeing a major lack of comments or interaction like madville used to have.
Fix this site and don't try to spin off into badville and madville.
I agree.
Shiva is right as well.
Hows about we just keep the Madville, and not worry about annexing Madville into South Madville, and West Madville with their own zip codes with seperate Mayors, fire depts, and sanitation depts.
Maybe those that moved out of Madville could be let back in, and evaluated on a case by case basis. I agree on the freedom.....to do what....abuse someone else?
I would never want an antiseptic website...hell look at where I live...I'm faced with it every day. I've been yelled at in a grocery store for placing my hand on my wifes supple ass.
If something here has offended me, I try to just skim over it no big deal. If the place becomes a gulag of nonsensical profanities and slander then send over the Madville SWAT team to break up the party.
I also understand that you have to have checks and balances. If the place becomes such a horrible place to visit that Citizens of Madville start leaving, that isn't good. But, as shown recently some people are never satisfied because they are "helpless victims" that refuse to do anything about anything in their life. They just complain and bitch and moan about how life isn't fair, or "this isn't right" or what have you.
Fuck I dunno.....lets organize a full contact cage match to figure this out.
I think we need a Madville Court. When a person is banned there can be a link for a trial. Basically the Moderator doing the banning can type a statement on why a person was banned, and the person being banned can type a statement on why they think they should not be banned. Then allow Premium users to vote whether to ban or not to ban. There can even be a forum below for all users to discuss or argue for or against the banishment. However, voting should be limited, that's why I said just premium users, but it could belimited by allowing users to vote that have over 1000 points.
The problem with that is that elitism breeds contempt which is never good for a community.
In this case elitism can be bought for $5 a month, so it isn't that elite. You can even use a points base as low as 200, just to prevent people (the banned person) from creating new accounts to vote. Plus if you use points it allows only those that have a real interest in the community to vote.
Your system fails it hard. There have been premium users that have been banned in the past, so premium status is not an indicator of trust.
If you want a democratic website, then go to kuro5hin. There are many large (approx. a hundred thousand members) sites like that around.
It is not an issue of trust. It is an issue of letting the users decide who is banned since evryone has a problem with the status quo. Points may very well be a better solution than premium status. I was only making a suggestion that might ameliorate a problem that many seem to share at the moment. I really do think this site has a large proportion of contrarians that have to disagree with every post and every idea on here. If I were mityh I would just pick a few people that seem tinterested in making Madville a fun and interesteing site and use them as advisors and let the others who will never agree on anything to keep on bitching. They are obviiusly not going to abandon Madville since they have not already.
Shiva, Froguana, Rexxx, and even Jizz (I know, I'm surprised as well! 
) all make very good points.
I wanna change my answer!!!!!!
Two wrongs don't make a right.
I say keep it the same site. Maybe we should start thinking about who exactly do we want to be the audience of madville. That would help. ::grin:: I understand that you want to have a site for all people but lets face it.. some younger kids do not belong here. sure theres games and fun stuff but... Do you know what im saying?
quit making the internet so much fucking work!
give me links.
give me journals.
give me comments where people can be assholes.
let me ignore the asshats on my own.
quit thinking so much.
Tobey sends you his best regards. 
FUCK YEA!!!
if you dont like it dont read it...
best comment yet i think
When I was in Times Square last week, this is what I saw.
I don't know anything more about it.
PIC TO BIG NOW ITS LINKED:
http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v251/cmass/TobyMcGuirevisitsMTV.jpg
[Comment was edited by nightshocker on July 07, 2004 at 09:39:17 AM]
Is that litty in the grey cap with the star on it?
He's obviously drugged the oriental girl and they are about to have a wild 3 way with Toby. 
File for a grant from the US Government to do a study on the users of Madville! And the Pro's and Con's of splitting it into 2 domains. With the way the US goverment works MV will have to stay the way it is for 3-5 years and banned users need to come back in to skew the data the way it needs to be skewwed properly. That will give us a trial run on the old members coming back and put a few duckets into Mainly Yellows pocket.
That's just my opinion!
I agree with nighshocker in a way, shit or get off the pot, every leader has to make a decision and stick with it. Censored or uncensored, pick one, flip a coin, and move on.
Now, the programmer in me is telling me this: we don't need two seperate sites when one will suffice.
In your madville options or when you sign up you have to choose to be a "Prude" and only display "Censored items" or you choose to be a "Turd" and view BOTH items.
All we now have to do is make two of everything, a Journal Uncensored, Jorunal Comments uncensored, Links, Links Uncensored, Link Comments Uncensored.
(For those programming deficient, it's not even that big a deal, all you do is use the existing infrastructure and attach a "Uncensored" flag to mark the item as a prude or turd.)
What about the interface? Use tabs, have a tab that says "CENSORED" and another tab that reads "UNCENSORED"
All the prudes will still see the site exactly as it stands today, and unless they choose to see the uncensored content they won't even know it exists.
Also, it would be great to set a preference so that those people who mostly want to post in censored areas can do so easily.
For example, I choose "Uncensored" material as my default option. When I click Journal Entries I see all the Journal Entries that were posted to the "Uncensored" area. If I want to see all the "Censored" Journals I click the tab at the top that says "censored".
I dunno, just throwin shit out there.
Probably would be a lot cleaner to just allow people to ignore content from certain users. This would probably be the better solution since most content on Madville is provided by a handful of the total userbase. Neither solution is trivial to implement but my solution does seem just as effective while being simpler to implement.
yea like a "do not view comments and links from this user"
I have been thinking the same thing. I would love to have a /ignore feature. It would have to be something pretty easy to turn on and off though. I don't normally stay annoyed that long
LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111oneoneoneone eleven
So when is this going to come about?
Hopefully never.
I, for one, have a very strong opinion on Free Speech. Especially on the internet. People are seemingly forgetting about the mask of anonymity the internet provides so easily. The net seems to be the last true, open forum available for free speech. Sure, there's plenty of reasons why things need to be censored - That's why there are work-friendly sites (including madville, if you turn on the censoring options) available to visit. I think many users here, and all over the web, take things far more seriously than they need to be.
One option would be, like metallic mentioned before (And was in the works at one point but never materialized) was to have an option to ignore content from "User X". Basically, the opposite of the Madville Friends List - the Madville Enemies List. Any user on your Enemies List would have all of their content filtered out for you - Links, comments, journals - EVERYTHING. I think that's a great idea. So if cmassaro is getting sick of my use of the term "Japs" in links (
), he can just stop viewing all of the links I submit and get them filtered out automatically.
And until that happens - It's really just easy enough to flat out ignore someone if you don't like what they're doing.
STFU. We'll have none of that rational thought here.
Instead of finding a SANE solution, certain individuals are too busy throwing their dick around because they think they will be personally defeated if certain unbanned users come back, since one individual alone accounted for the vast majority (all) of bans.
This has been made to be a fucking HUGE deal when it really fucking isn't. Unban the banned users, and if they fuck up, reban them. It doesn't take that much brainpower. It doesn't require elaborate solutions to save one person's face. It only requires one easy solution. Instead of brainpower, certain users are using their small pecker power.
And that is the truth of the situation, put as bluntly as possible without naming anyone personally or calling them a stupid pussyass motherfucking dick only looking for intarweb drama, is that the problem can be solved easily if a certain individual didn't act like a road block. Because I am above that.
[Comment was edited by SeanHannity on July 06, 2004 at 05:39:30 PM]
WHAT THE FUCK IS THE INTERNET!!!!
I can't stop laughing hysterically at this line: "since one individual alone accounted for the vast majority (all) of bans"
Ha.
Nice attempt to throw me under the bus, DJ.. The fact is, you guys were banned for reasons. You all had been warned and given chances. You failed at taking action, and got banned again. I don't understand why you feel it is your right, just because a new owner came along, to come back to a site where the track record has already been proven. Hasn't your Sean Hannity idol taught you nothing? Track records are what a person's current status is based upon.
At any rate, trust me, nothing is to save face for me.. I could care less... I have chosen to no longer admin here simply because now that MIYH has finally thrown all of you idiots a bone, there's really no going back. It would be detrimental to Madville if I stuck around because, like it or not, the idiots that got themselves banned would target me as much as possible, and never stop until something worked. Well guess what.. I'm beating you to the punch. I'm not here. Now what will you do with Madville? Make it into a bunch of trolls... much like your site was? Yeah.. that was successful.... or maybe try something different like Tasty did... he had a good idea, but you trolls couldn't stick together to make it work...
And for the record, I didn't make it a big deal. I never once thought of the banned users until one of them brought it up. And even then, I only wagered my opinion, and moved on... Heh. So.. who is it again that is blowing things out of proportion regarding the banned users?
Anyway... enjoy....
Holy hell, I didn't mean to get you all worked up into a sweat. Don't pop a boner or anything, Rexxx.
"Nice attempt to throw me under the bus, DJ."
Holy fuck! I didn't mention anyone by name, but you felt so compelled to respond. What's wrong Rexxx? You should have just ignored it if you felt it didn't apply to you.
"The fact is, you guys were banned for reasons."
What's this "you guys" business? Do you think it was some fucking huge conspiracy to ruin Madville or get you upset?
Also, I fucking left madville. I came back and you banned me hours after I joined and while I was away from my computer. Nothing transpired to get me kicked out except what I posted to another website. Yea, we all had "reasons." The reason was (at least for some of us), you had a personal grudge.
"You all had been warned and given chances."
Pardon me? I was? When did that happen? Someone failed to let me know.
"You failed at taking action, and got banned again."
AGAIN? I was banned once. I was never let back in. You really need to check your memory. I left, came back and was banned because of what I posted on another website.
"I don't understand why you feel it is your right, just because a new owner came along, to come back to a site where the track record has already been proven."
My RIGHT? I talked with the new owner and talked it over with him rationally, unlike what is transpiring here. I don't have a RIGHT to anything. However, I can ask people to reassess the situation, without having you interfere.
"At any rate, trust me, nothing is to save face for me.. I could care less..."
Sir, that is utter bullshit. Otherwise, you wouldn't have felt compelled to respond to my post. I never mentioned your name.
"I have chosen to no longer admin here simply because now that MIYH has finally thrown all of you idiots a bone, there's really no going back."
You really need to ask yourself what the problem was. There is now a large consesus among the userbase here that it is you and your drama-whoring. I'm glad you're leaving. Perhaps the site can get back to a large commenting userbase without the fear of being arbitrarily banned.
"It would be detrimental to Madville if I stuck around because, like it or not, the idiots that got themselves banned would target me as much as possible, and never stop until something worked."
I don't give a fuck about you. I bet you think all the banned users sit around all day in some dark cave and plot against you and how to make you look like an idiot. You should stick around. You'd be surprised what can be accomplished by all the people you got banned.
"I'm beating you to the punch. I'm not here. Now what will you do with Madville? Make it into a bunch of trolls... much like your site was?"
I'll submit links and crack jokes, like what was always done even when I was moderator.
Besides, my site was a personal blog site. It was not a site to emulate madville. I posted what I cared about. I didn't give a rat's ass about hits or new users.
"Yeah.. that was successful.... or maybe try something different like Tasty did... he had a good idea, but you trolls couldn't stick together to make it work..."
Because it wasn't a fucking community. It was a personal weblog where people who knew me irl and online could gather and laugh. It wasn't Fark, Madville, or kuro5hin. How come you can't get that through your thick skull? Or do you still have that vast dj28 conspiracy in your mind, that I wanted to take down you, Joe, and madville?
"And for the record, I didn't make it a big deal. I never once thought of the banned users until one of them brought it up. And even then, I only wagered my opinion, and moved on... Heh. So.. who is it again that is blowing things out of proportion regarding the banned users?"
LOL. That sure isn't what I've been told.
"Anyway... enjoy...."
Yea, you too Rexxx. Have a nice day. And I hope your penis isn't sore from all the times you've been throwing it around. It would make any other man's penis swell and cyst up to the point of erectile dysfuction.
[Comment was edited by SeanHannity on July 06, 2004 at 05:29:34 PM]
mwahahahaha - i love that movie - and that scene is priceless ::grin::
Nice work Mr. Hannity.
What have you got against User X? The fact that he chooses to not use his slave masters last name?
'Also, I fucking left madville. I came back and you banned me hours after I joined and while I was away from my computer. Nothing transpired to get me kicked out except what I posted to another website. Yea, we all had "reasons." The reason was (at least for some of us), you had a personal grudge. '
I'm going to ignore the rest of your crap because, quite simply, it doesn't matter to me anymore. However, I think it is fair for everyone to know the truth behind the above statement. You tell me to check my memory... Well, sir, it is pretty darned good...
You were banned because Duztin had posted Newfie's picture on your public website explicity to make fun of him. The picture had been taken from Newfie's webserver without his permission, and was posted without his permission. All attempts to ask you to remove the picture were met with silence. There were multiple attempts to contact you, and you ignored the request. Since you were in full control of the site, and had the ability to remove the picture, we held you accountable for your user's actions. Your inability to even respond back in any way forced us to assume that you supported Duztin in his endeavors to screw with Newfie. Hell.. the messages posted along with it, including your own, showed that you endorsed it, but we STILL gave you the chance to remove it. We waited a couple of DAYS before finally banning you since you decided not to respond.
So.. yeah, we gave you chances to clear up the situation, and you chose to do nothing about it. Technically, the picture was removed from an unprotected directory on Newfies server which, even though unprotected, the intrusion was AGAINST THE LAW.... then, the picture was posted publically, which was copyright infringement since you did not have the owners permission to do so.
Sorry if you felt that banning you from Madville was too harsh. Perhaps time in prison for hacking, or a hefty fine for copyright infringement would have been better, huh?
This is exactly my point from the other post. The side that you have doesn't always seem to match the TRUTH of the situation. It always matches what you NEED it to match to make your trolling arguments.
You have no clue what really happened. You weren't even there for half of what went on. I'll correct your version of what happened.
"You were banned because Duztin had posted Newfie's picture on your public website explicity to make fun of him."
I am not liable for what HE posts on my website, and there is a legal precedent to that. Newfie was asked if he cared long ago about that picture. He said he didn't care. Ask him yourself.
"The picture had been taken from Newfie's webserver without his permission, and was posted without his permission."
The picture was in a public directory on a public webserver for everyone to access. Period. No one contacted me, as the owner of the website, to remove it. If someone posts content to my site, then I have no control over it. You have an arguement against whoever posted it. Rather, Newfie does, and he has no beef with me. He has a beef with you, though, apperantly.. (SEE EDIT II BELOW)
" All attempts to ask you to remove the picture were met with silence."
Because I was never contacted. I will state this right now: Newfie NEVER contacted me about ANY content on my site, PERIOD. Newfie himself will vouch for this fact. I removed the pictures after I saw them myself.
"Since you were in full control of the site, and had the ability to remove the picture, we held you accountable for your user's actions."
If someone posted illegal content here, and MIYH never caught it for days, but eventually removed it when he saw it, he cannot be held liable for his user's actions. You jumped the gun and you know (or perhaps you don't know) that you did.
"Your inability to even respond back in any way forced us to assume that you supported Duztin in his endeavors to screw with Newfie."
No one contacted me. Period. Read that over until you get it. I NEVER recieved an email, aim, msn, yahoo!, or IRC message from ANYONE telling me to remove that content. You are lying. Newfie never contacted me. I just talked to him, and he didn't even KNOW it was on my site. So your stupid little story is fucked from the beginning.
"Hell.. the messages posted along with it, including your own, showed that you endorsed it, but we STILL gave you the chance to remove it. We waited a couple of DAYS before finally banning you since you decided not to respond."
The story containing those pictures were removed. Those images were NOT HOSTED ON MY WEBSPACE. My server had nothing to do with anything. At all. But the story was delete anyway.
"Sorry if you felt that banning you from Madville was too harsh. Perhaps time in prison for hacking, or a hefty fine for copyright infringement would have been better, huh?"
I infringed on no one's copyright. Someone else did. I never hacked anything, either. If you are going to make accusations against me and my character, you may want facts to back them up. Otherwise, shut the fuck up.
"This is exactly my point from the other post. The side that you have doesn't always seem to match the TRUTH of the situation. It always matches what you NEED it to match to make your trolling arguments."
Wrong about everything. The only person Newfie contacted about the pictures was the duztin's ISP that were hosting the pictures. My ISP or me was NEVER contacted about anything, because I never hosted them, EVER.
Once again, if you don't realize the truth, you can ask newfie. Nothing of what I said was false.
EDIT
Oh and another thing, I was mostly banned for calling someone on my site who was admin here "a cock." I regretted it and now have workable relations with that person. I was banned weeks after the Newfie/picture thing occured.
EDIT II (from 3rd paragraph)
I just talked with Newfie. He informed me that he was aware of the image posted on my site by duztin, but never contacted me about it. Rather, he contacted duztin's ISP who was hosting it. I deleted the comment before duztin took his down.
[Comment was edited by SeanHannity on July 06, 2004 at 08:07:31 PM]
'You have no clue what really happened. You weren't even there for half of what went on. I'll correct your version of what happened.'
Actually, since I was the one that banned you, I suspect that I do have a clue as to what happened, don't you think?
'I am not liable for what HE posts on my website, and there is a legal precedent to that. Newfie was asked if he cared long ago about that picture. He said he didn't care. Ask him yourself.'
This isn't a court of law. You had the ability to remove the offending post. Yes, Newfie DID have a problem with it at that time. Doesn't matter how he feels TODAY about it... at that time, he was strongly against having it posted anywhere. Duztin got banned for posting it, along with private information, here, in fact.
'The picture was in a public directory on a public webserver for everyone to access. Period. No one contacted me, as the owner of the website, to remove it. If someone posts content to my site, then I have no control over it. You have an arguement against whoever posted it. Rather, Newfie does, and he has no beef with me. He has a beef with you, though, apperantly..'
No, that's not a solid agrument, and you know it. Just because the door to my house stands wide open does NOT give anyone legal right to enter it. Same thing with any server on the internet. You and I BOTH know that that is true. It was NOT made public and NOT being advertised ANYWHERE as such. And yes, he does have a beef with me... now... because I banned him some time ago for other things unrelated to this. His feelings toward me currently don't matter in this argument. At that time, he was not happy about the picture and wanted it removed. I told him I would contact you about it. And I did.
'Because I was never contacted. I will state this right now: Newfie NEVER contacted me about ANY content on my site, PERIOD. Newfie himself will vouch for this fact. I removed the pictures after I saw them myself.'
You are again correct, to a degree. Newfie never contacted you. I did. I sent you an email, AND a private message here at Madville. You never responded to either.
'If someone posted illegal content here, and MIYH never caught it for days, but eventually removed it when he saw it, he cannot be held liable for his user's actions. You jumped the gun and you know (or perhaps you don't know) that you did.'
Again, this isn't a court of law. However, if it was brought to his attention, and he STILL did nothing about it, then yes, he does become liable. I brought it to your attention.
'No one contacted me. Period. Read that over until you get it. I NEVER recieved an email, aim, msn, yahoo!, or IRC message from ANYONE telling me to remove that content. You are lying. Newfie never contacted me. I just talked to him, and he didn't even KNOW it was on my site. So your stupid little story is fucked from the beginning.'
Oh.. you got me DJ.. now who's the conspiracy theorist? Why would I lie about sending you an email just to ban you? Hell... I actually used to LIKE you .....And yes, Newfie knew VERY well that it was on your site. Joe brought it to my attention, and I brought it to Newfies. He was not happy about it, and I contacted you to remove it. I assumed that you would be a respectable administrator of your own site and remove the offending picture. You didn't.
'The story containing those pictures were removed. Those images were NOT HOSTED ON MY WEBSPACE. My server had nothing to do with anything. At all. But the story was delete anyway.'
Yeah, when Duztins hosting the pics site went down. At the time, you did NOTHING to prevent them from being displayed. In fact, you made multiple comments on the threads themselves. So, please, don't try to make yourself look like some sort of honorable hero by deleting the story. You didn't... and you know it.
'I infringed on no one's copyright. Someone else did. I never hacked anything, either. If you are going to make accusations against me and my character, you may want facts to back them up. Otherwise, shut the fuck up.'
I wonder if the Georgia court system would have seen it that way.
'Wrong about everything. The only person Newfie contacted about the pictures was the duztin's ISP that were hosting the pictures. My ISP or me was NEVER contacted about anything, because I never hosted them, EVER.'
Wait a second... didn't you say that Newfie didn't know about the pictures? Then why would he contact Duztin's ISP? Oh.. that's right... because you are making up a story to fit your need to fit in here again. Sorry dude, I'm not lying, you know it and I know it. Yet, you are. Yes, Newfie DID contact Duztons ISP... and I believe got him shut down temporarily... forcing him to seek other avenues to run his server.
'Once again, if you don't realize the truth, you can ask newfie. Nothing of what I said was false.'
Except most of it.
'Oh and another thing, I was mostly banned for calling someone on my site who was admin here "a cock." I regretted it and now have workable relations with that person. I was banned weeks after the Newfie/picture thing occured.'
Well.. considering that *I* was the person that banned you, I can safely say that that was NOT the reason you were banned. I didn't even know you called an admin a cock... so.. that doesn't apply. As far as weeks.. you are incorrect.. you were banned DAYS after the Newfie picture... which shows that we indeed gave you time to take care of the problem to which you chose to do nothing.
I'm done arguing this with you, DJ... it's pointless. I know that I am correct in the facts, and you will disagree to try to sway public opinion. It's inevitable. So.. go ahead... make your next case.. I won't even respond.. so you get the last word. Enjoy it.
Wow, Mook, you are almost on the verge of starting to begin to hurt my *feelings* here, because I would NEVER get tired of hearing what you have to say. That is partly why I keep coming back to MV. To see what the community has to say. I want to hear it.
I know I say some stuff that some others think of as controversial, but I have NEVER experienced anything that I consider even close to abusive on MV. In real life I have been called a Saddam lover (that's a mental picture I could do without) and other abusive stuff. Just reading this thread, I have to agree with a lot of things said by people I normally have nothing in common with. Point is that I get exposure to a wide range of thoughts, feelings, and expressionds on MV. I like that.
While I recognize that some people in this world are pathetic losers who have no life except to breed discontent and misery in an otherwise happy place like MV, I think that the banned ones should be given a second chance. MIYH sounds like someone ( with a bit of help) who could quickly weed out the psychos who use the second chance to do more of the same nonsense. At that point, get rid of them on the basis that we want a healthy enviornment, not a mental health clinic for incurable nutjobs as our community.
In summary, Jap on, Mookster!
"Duztin got banned for posting it, along with private information, here, in fact."
WRONG! Duztin, myself and playmate had nothing to do with that. When Duztin reposted the pic with the info, he blanked it out.
The day that happened, our ISP had a major outage in phx. We told that to jail, he could have confirmed it with our ISP, bit didn't. In fact, Duztin wasn't banned for that because he didn't do it.
I
agree......
::grin::
Odd, I totally got you confused with somebody else. Not sure how that happened, I must've picked a name at random. Looking back through a couple of the links I submitted, you never even commented in them. Sorry!
Before I type this post, I should mention that I have talked to newfie about everything stated. I also have outlook2000 archives dating back to around the middle of 2001. Your email address or internet handle was not found anywhere in a search under the two email accounts I used here (my comcast account and my catchall email address for my domain). The complaint you keep posing about sending me an email wanting it down is a pure fabrication. You are lying. I never recieved an email from you, Joe, Newfie, or anyone involved. That is the God's honest truth. You never sent me anything. Not only that, but a couple of admins on my site who were also active members on Madville never had a complaint lodged with them.
"You had the ability to remove the offending post."
I did, even though no one contacted me to remove them.
"Yes, Newfie DID have a problem with it at that time. Doesn't matter how he feels TODAY about it... at that time, he was strongly against having it posted anywhere."
Yes, and I talked to him about it. He said he never contacted me, because he contacted the ISP where it was being hosted from (duztin's ISP).
"You are again correct, to a degree. Newfie never contacted you. I did. I sent you an email, AND a private message here at Madville. You never responded to either."
You never contacted me. I have copious logs of all email sent to and from my email addresses on this computer, and a backup CD containing my mbx and other documents. You either never contacted me, or I never recieved it. That's just a fact.
"Again, this isn't a court of law. However, if it was brought to his attention, and he STILL did nothing about it, then yes, he does become liable. I brought it to your attention."
No you did not. No one brought it to my attention.
All of the rest of what you say is garbage. I talked to newfie himself and he backs everything up. Besides that, I have the date on which I saved the image duztin posted to my site on my HDD, conveniently archived by Windows2000's indexing service. According to the first archive.org entry, my first site went active in June. It was two months after that when I decided i would put up my commenting system. After duztin posted those pictures, I saved it to my HDD before deleting the entry. The date of archival is shown HERE. The date I was banned can be seen on when I last logged in HERE. The reason I was banned was for some art I created showing an admin performing a sexual act on someone else in the community (newfie). The image can be seen HERE. Notice that the image was created 3 days before I was banned. It was in reality posted about a day after I created it, which means it was posted about 2 days before I was banned. That was the "cock" thing I was referring to. That is what I was banned for. The Newfie incident happened MONTHS before I was banned, and was since taken down MONTHS before I was banned.
So please shut up and give it up already. You are wrong.
[Comment was edited by SeanHannity on July 06, 2004 at 09:23:25 PM]
Yes, Rexxx has a serious problem getting his facts straight about when people were banned and for what reason. I was banned over 4 MONTHS after the Newfie picture scandal.
I did make a comment a week or so ago about how racist a particular group of comments was. That is what I thought you were referencing.
As for getting me confused with someone else, I get that all the time. I can walk into a totally unfamiliar place and people will come up to me, ask me questions that don't relate to me, or say how long it had been since they had seen me, and so on. Been going on for decades now, I don't question it anymore.
As for getting me confused with someone else, I get that all the time...
Do you have an evil twin?
Never gave it much thought
Why, do you think it might be you?
I am good, you are *bad*
I am from Pittsburgh
You are a *penguin* (Pittsburgh's hockey mascot)
It just might be true!
might have been mentioned, but I don't have time to read all responses. What about a site that shares posts and general content, but runs a seperate line of commentary. Maybe everything that requires censorship could be moved to the rogue site and replaced on the teflon-coated shit free one with a little note mentioning the cleanup.
ok, my 2 cents....this is a nice community...I enjoy it...it allows me to escape, albeit for a short period of time, the daily monotony of my joyless-job. But let's step back and look at it...does this affect your/our life/lives? Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the witty banter, but I only look at this site at work...granted, I have occasionally looked at home, but can count the times on one hand, which was a good thing, because I probably was using the other hand at the time. My point...if there is one...who cares what people say on this site? What could be so offensive? Frankly, I have never been offended by someone I don't know or who doesn't know me....how could you? How could racial, ethnic, sexual or any type of slurs offend you, unless they are true? There are all types of people and I guarantee that some of them fit into those categories....but that is universal....who cares if someone half-way around the world disagrees with what you have to say and rips you on it...ignore him from now on....I guarantee they will go away...it's no fun if there is no one to mess with. that's it....
I don't think your well-thought out, logical argument is wanted round these here parts...
[Comment was edited by crable on July 07, 2004 at 02:44:03 PM]
I was in a hurry to go to lunch....
I'd just like to point out that while there are around 100 people who comment and everything, and keep up with what the community's doing, there are thousands more that simply come for the links, and lurk. How confusing do you think it'd be if suddenly, out of nowhere, the site split in two?
Anathema
Today I announce my candidacy for lead moderator of this new Madville. MadvilleX.com would be a cool domain too.
miyh: Thank you for listening to people::grin::